Author Topic: Discussion about Forcefield  (Read 5304 times)

Joe Chip

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Discussion about Forcefield
« on: April 12, 2013, 07:21:22 PM »
Hey guys, i reached level 85 with my engineer. I am using a 2 handed mace and have very little invested in vitality. I have no problems running through Derinkuyu (Leveling).
FF now absorbs around 37k when it's fully charged. Once i am at level 100 it will absorb around 60k. I tried running Derinkuyu Normal a few times but most of the monsters kill me really fast since they do around 12k with each attack. I don't know how it will be once i actually reach a higher level but i honestly consider starting a new character with a 1 hand / 1 shield setup just because of this reason.
So my question do you guys think that it would be wise to tweak Forcefield in order to match up to the higher Damage the monsters deal to you ?

Salan

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 07:29:21 PM »
Personally I think forcefield is too powerful from my experiences. 

I think the best thing to do with it is make its recast longer, so you can't constantly have it up, Right now it recycles to fast, so if you DO get hit hard you just pop it back up again.

anything that gives you 80k plus health... ug...
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Joe Chip

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 07:45:43 PM »
I think the best thing to do with it is make its recast longer, so you can't constantly have it up, Right now it recycles to fast, so if you DO get hit hard you just pop it back up again.
I see, you make a good point. If you did that builds, like the one i currently have, simply wouldn't be possible. Once FF goes down it only takes one hit and i am dead. It would require a whole different play style and stat distribution in order to make it work.

Salan

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2013, 08:04:23 PM »
mm , whats your passive skills like? ie DR, block dodge?
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Cy_

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 09:02:34 PM »
Hey guys, i reached level 85 with my engineer. I am using a 2 handed mace and have very little invested in vitality.

Sorry man, @ lvl 100, you're done like dinner.

DR and VIT become more and more mandatory from lvl 80 on up. No bubble will save you, you cant run that fast, you'll get 1 shot constantly.

I been there, done that got t-shirts, pins and beer cozeys for it. You gotta have minimum of 50% DR on top of at least 20k HP. My lvl 100 Engnr who is severely geared out @ 75% DR and 23K HP gets bitchslap-one-shot fairly regularly using a pair of "Wizard of Gore"s that hit @ .38 for 20k white dmg and crit 45-60k 55%+ of the time. Yes, I have a "whirlpool of fate" that can crit for 400+K, no, I dont live long enough for it to be worthwhile. And my gear is the full set of Engnr lvl 101 Runic stuff stat chanted and fully gemmed for DR + Regen + Dmg% fire/elect.

Joe Chip

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 05:53:46 AM »
mm , whats your passive skills like? ie DR, block dodge?
My Build looks like this

1. Skills
- Blitz : 15 in Heavy Lifting, 15 in Supercharge, 12 Emberquake, 5 in Onslaught
- Construction : 15 in Bullwark (for the DR%), 15 in Fire and spark, 15 in Heal Bot
- Aegis : 15 in Forcefield, 12 in Immobilization Copter

2. Stat Distribution
Dexterity : 53 (for a 10% crit chance) + enough Dexterity from skulls and enchaments in order to reach a 50% Crit+Dodge chance
Vitality: 161 (necessary for the Mondon's set)
Strength : Rest
Focus : Nothing

3. Gear
Weapon : Siegebraker
Boots : Mondon's boots (normal version)
Pants : Mondon's (normal version)
Plate : Mondon's (normal version)
Helm : Mondon's (Lvl 101 version)
Amulet: Mondon's
Rings : Mondon's ring (both are socketed with Skulls of Karandir)
Shoulder Armor : Mondon's plate (normal version)
Belt : Belt of the right tools
Gloves : Mondon's (LvL 101 Version)

Everything is socketed with Giant Glame, Spark and Ice embers

This build works extremely good in Derinkuyu (leveling). It just doesn't work against monsters that deal a lot of damage. Forcefield simply gives up on you really fast because the damage is so great and you die. Please offer me some advise on my gear so i can make this guy stronger.


Sorry man, @ lvl 100, you're done like dinner.

DR and VIT become more and more mandatory from lvl 80 on up. No bubble will save you, you cant run that fast, you'll get 1 shot constantly.

I been there, done that got t-shirts, pins and beer cozeys for it. You gotta have minimum of 50% DR on top of at least 20k HP. My lvl 100 Engnr who is severely geared out @ 75% DR and 23K HP gets bitchslap-one-shot fairly regularly using a pair of "Wizard of Gore"s that hit @ .38 for 20k white dmg and crit 45-60k 55%+ of the time. Yes, I have a "whirlpool of fate" that can crit for 400+K, no, I dont live long enough for it to be worthwhile. And my gear is the full set of Engnr lvl 101 Runic stuff stat chanted and fully gemmed for DR + Regen + Dmg% fire/elect.
Hmm i am sad to hear that. The way you are describing it, it seems impossible to build a melee character with a high damage output and high survivability. I simply don't see a way this build could work on higher levels. I find it quite frustrating because i only play melee characters and i grew quite fond of my engineer. I would hate to make a build that dies every 1 to 2 minutes, it's simply no fun at all.

dreams

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 06:44:34 AM »
If that is your gear, i think the problem is that you do not have enough DR. At 75% DR and full charge forcefield, nothing should be able to get through except for bosses and some rare elites. I think you need to farm for more skull of limoany and reach for at least 50% DR as suggested before attempting normal Derinkuyu. To do normal Derinkuyu comfortably, i feel you also need at least 2 of the following 1)50% dodge or 2) 50% block or 3)50% missile reflect.

Joe Chip

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2013, 06:49:45 AM »
If that is your gear, i think the problem is that you do not have enough DR. At 75% DR and full charge forcefield, nothing should be able to get through except for bosses and some rare elites. I think you need to farm for more skull of limoany and reach for at least 50% DR as suggested before attempting normal Derinkuyu. To do normal Derinkuyu comfortably, i feel you also need at least 2 of the following 1)50% dodge or 2) 50% block or 3)50% missile reflect.
Correct me if i wrong but how Forcefield resists damage is directly tied to your resistances, in other words it isn't just 60k absorption at lvl 100, it takes in account your armor, melee and elemental resistances too. I always thought that DR% is only important when your FF goes down (but you have so low hp that it make no difference). In other words if you only rely on FF for your survival you got to think that Elemental resistances are more important than DR%

dreams

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 07:04:44 AM »
I assume the elemental resistance you are talking about here is elemental armour? DR means damage reduction which means any damage you take is reduce by this amount. Lets say the mob deals 10k damage, 75% DR would mean you take only 2.5K damage while 5k elemental armour (insanely high even with end game equipment) would mean you still take 5k damage. AT higher levels, i feel DR is more effective than elemental armour.

If i am not wrong DR is calculated before FF, so a high DR would make your FF even more effective.

Joe Chip

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 07:17:01 AM »
If i am not wrong DR is calculated before FF, so a high DR would make your FF even more effective.
I see, i always thought that the opposite was true. That's why i was focusing on my elemental resistances. It seems that DR% is very important to this build.

HughManatee

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 07:40:53 AM »
If i am not wrong DR is calculated before FF, so a high DR would make your FF even more effective.
I see, i always thought that the opposite was true. That's why i was focusing on my elemental resistances. It seems that DR% is very important to this build.

DR% is very important in EVERY build. You basically need to max it out in order to survive the end game, no matter what class you are.

Cy_

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 10:32:25 AM »
Synergies is designed that way on purpose to keep things lively even after you're full on raid-spec/geared. It's the only way to keep it fun.

Craftea

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2013, 10:18:32 PM »
At the moment, I think Force Field's strength is justified.

The Engineer is a primarily melee class, and besides Force Field, there aren't any other strong defensive options.

Aegis of Fate is pathetic, and Bulwark/Heal Bot's physical armor barely matters. The Physical Damage Reduction from Bulwark isn't significant at all, considering it is mostly elemental damage that deals a significant portion of damage.

If Force Field gets nerfed...... I don't think Engineer would be playable at all.

Cy_

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 09:11:40 AM »
Agreed, Cratftea.

I dont argue that when you're fighting trash it makes things easy, but when you get double hero trolls it saves you sometimes. If I get a double leap slam I still get 2-shot, even @ 20K+ HP with 72% DR.

Ishiga26

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Re: Discussion about Forcefield
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 10:31:35 PM »
Ok this is the part of the game I have no experience with and at this point, fear greatly.

Having the endgame revolve around one lynchpin stat like Damage Reduction that's rare enough for me at mid-game turns me off but I feel like I could enjoy it if I could just get there.

I don't like being one-shot by ANYthing. Ever. It feels cheap and overdone on the damage side of things when i can't take at least one full force hit from a spike damage attack and live on a full globe, to say nothing of my inability to build a character without investing into Vitality at least up to 100. The problem is, I don't know if I know how to play properly to handle the endgame in even vanilla TL2 at this point. Everything I see terrifies me.

I don't know what to do anymore. lol I don't mean to highjack the thread though so back OT.

I never much liked how mandatory FF felt in all the engie builds I've seen. To be frank I prefer Aegis of Fate because of it's self-proc'ing. That's the kind of margin of error a player like me needs to be able to handle. Not die instantly cuz the bubble popped and I scrambled too tough to the key to get it back up.