Author Topic: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs  (Read 8570 times)

Salan

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Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« on: April 24, 2013, 10:21:26 PM »
From my perspective the two things I could look at altering is how embermages gain charge, and the skills that have static damage rates that did not increase compared to weapondamage rates..



If anyone is interested in looking into those skills, this is the thread to do so.  I am not going to take the time to do it myself, way to valuable doing the actual content.   But I AM willing to alter these two aspects of the class at this time.
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QuestionSign

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 11:28:32 PM »
http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlight-2-modding/5780-fully-modified-embermage-%5Belementalist-saint-mystic%5D.html

This guy made some pretty fun changes to the embermage class, that have really made it easier to deal with and fun without being overpowered as an idea for some changes.

The issue regarding charge in my opinion isn't much of an issue, I am never having mana issues and my charge bar is full almost 100% of the time in a fight.

In my opinion the real issue is survivability for the class not necessarily damage.

sinergistic

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 04:12:14 PM »
I think the embermage as a class is fine, but some of the changes synergies makes hurts them. I play as fire.

I'm pretty sure I was getting somewhere close to 450% extra magic damage from focus in vanilla with about 850 focus. The same amount of focus in synergies only gets me about 210% extra magic damage (ouch).

This wouldn't be so bad if I could slot %all-damage skulls and %fire-damage skulls to make up for the nerf to focus, but I'm practically required to slot 12 skulls of limoany (60% DR, + 15% DR from Immolation Aura for the 75% DR cap), and a good chunk of skulls of recheliu if I want to stay alive to deal any damage at all, which leaves precious little room for damage skulls/eyes. On top of this, I also need to use a shield (blech) for the extra slots it provides, and for the block chance which grants a 75% chance of me not going smoosh when things hit me.

To add to this, most of the high end gear I've found so far as been absolutely awful in comparison with gear I already have from vanilla, especially the burning blood set (transcendent and ascendant aren't much better, if at all. The only piece of transcendent I've found that has been an upgrade is the belt, but even that is primarily focus based, so it doesn't give me much.) I could go into depth about this (some of the peices are truly awful) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I mean, it's called tier 0 for a reason, yes?

I've been grinding the troll areas in the hopes of finding this tier 0.5 fire focused gear I've read about, but haven't seen anything yet (in fact, haven't seen a single legendary from the trolls in 20+ clears).

As far as charge bar goes, what kind of changes where you thinking about? As a firemage, I gain charge incredibily quickly thanks to Blazing Pillars, Infernal Collapse, Magma Spears with just five points in charge mastery. In fact, I gain it so fast that I have full charge for more of a fight than I spend building charge. In light of the changes to focus, I could wish for a larger damage buff from having full charge, but that's about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "static damage rates that did not increase compared to weapondamage rates". If you're talking about buffing current static damage values to be more inline with other changes you've made in the mod (such as the changes to focus), please do. If you mean converting current static damage abilities over to %weapondps... eh, I'm not so sure.

To give you an idea of the damage numbers I see...

Magma spears (51% weapon dps) hits for about 3-4k and 8k crits on the target dummy in table mountain. Once the dummy is burning, I start to get Fire Brand procs for 20-30-40k and 50-60k crits. Infernal Collapse is similar. 50-80k white damage with 100-130k crits. Add in Firestorm with the 48% increased fire damage taken, and I can see infernal collapse crits for as high as 200k or so, depending on charge bar status. Blazing Pillars is even more amazing. If I get all of my pillars on a target, I can see numbers as high as 400k (very briefly). Basically all of my big damage numbers are coming from static damage, so you can see why I would be apprehensive about any changes made to them.

If you're talking about an across board 5%-10% increase or something, that would be more than welcome, but without more information about what you would actually change, I can't offer much more input.

My gear isn't great, and I'm slowly weaning myself off focus heavy pieces which give my diddly squat in terms of %magic damage in exchange for good %fire damage peices, and my crit rate/crit damage is also somewhat low, so these numbers can only go up. (I should note that I've found precious few good %fire damage pieces).

I guess I would echo QuestionSign's post and say that survivability is my main concern over damage, at the moment, and that is largely gear based (which is frustrating for the previously mentioned reason of the tier0 gear being... of questionable worth.)

Bodo8505

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 05:08:23 PM »
Hello
First you can change ur gear the helmet and hands to Asphyx for esxta slots and find a netherrealm shield .

 2nd u can go with electric gear with chest and boots from emberweave,2 ratchet rings with 50% elect per ring and find some 80-100 uniques with high stats and with cryptdrinker wand it will go nice.I have now 200% elem dmg bonus to elect.
 I am going with a combination that for me works fine...i am doing like 1mil k per hit. My build...
Shocking Orb//Lightning Brand//Ice Brand//Elemental Boon//Hailstorm-for 60% dps buff for elect and ice..//Charge Mastery
Elemental Attunement//Immolation Aura// and not necessary but good at dps Frost Wave//.

3d Yes until now i farmed like 40 legendarys ...i didn-t finish the ice or fire sets  until now but i didn-t changed any of my gear because i loose to much dmg. My avg. item level is 85...And i didn-t found a good legend wand to outdps my lvl 76 wand
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 05:16:50 PM by Bodo8505 »

sinergistic

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 07:05:24 PM »
In an attempt to condense my previous post somewhat, since it sorta turned into diarrhea of the mouth:

Embermage charge is fine in my opinion, even with just a few points invested in the mastery. With a maxed charge mastery, charge isn't something you'd every worry about as a firemage, as three of the core skills generate lots of charge.

Embermage static damage is fine as is, just need more opportunities for putting %damage on gear to increase it.

Honestly my only complaint with the class as it stands now is lack of focused gear sets. The stats of some of the set pieces just seems really random.

tl;dr firemages are fine.




Craftea

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 07:02:21 AM »
If you're talking about an across board 5%-10% increase or something, that would be more than welcome, but without more information about what you would actually change, I can't offer much more input.

I believe the purpose of this thread is for you to suggest what to change.  ;)

Bodo8505

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 05:27:13 PM »
The legendary items for embermage...i can-t use them ....

sinergistic

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 06:39:49 PM »
If you're talking about an across board 5%-10% increase or something, that would be more than welcome, but without more information about what you would actually change, I can't offer much more input.

I believe the purpose of this thread is for you to suggest what to change.  ;)

In that case, I'd say a flat 5-10% increase in static damage values would be welcome as a short term balance 'fix', since much of the difference between vanilla TL2 embermage damage and Synergies embermage damage (200-300% due to the focus changes) can be made up for by the more readily available 15% damage eyes.

Personally, I think embermages are just having teething problems due to focus changes and the majority of sockets needing to be devoted towards damage reduction and health. As gear improves (and is hopefully more tailored towards individual classes instead of the hodgepodge teir 0 'gear') embermages will be able to slot more and more %damage eyes. Maybe even tweak the eyes to offer 20%?

Full disclosure, I haven't played any of the new classes at level 100 yet, and I haven't played with any level 100 new classes either, so I don't know how big of a difference there is. Maybe ignorance is bliss?


QuestionSign

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 08:09:15 PM »
I have level 20 something necro and warlock, I'm waiting on more skill production for the pally lol. I do have a 100 zerker and mage and a lvl 80 theolentist

Bodo8505

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 03:53:55 AM »
Hello

The embermage is fine like it is...i have lvl 100 and with Avg item lvl of 85 i did 1.2 mil max dmg and im doing avg of 500-800k.

My stats are 18k life//  250str/147dex//850focus//230vit//  30% dmg reduction with overall of 2000 elem armors// and elem dmg bonus of 110%fire//110%ice//300%elect//100%poison.And i can replace sokets  for more def or for more dmg . 32 sokets total with the wand.

The problem is that i coodn`t find any legendary item until now to replace my gear...even the weapon.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 03:58:15 AM by Bodo8505 »

Craftea

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 08:19:28 AM »
Personally, I think embermages are just having teething problems due to focus changes and the majority of sockets needing to be devoted towards damage reduction and health. As gear improves (and is hopefully more tailored towards individual classes instead of the hodgepodge teir 0 'gear') embermages will be able to slot more and more %damage eyes. Maybe even tweak the eyes to offer 20%?

There will be more DR (other than Limoany) available as you progress through Synergies, so your sockets will become more available as you progress through the end game content.

Tweaking the eyes for Elemental damage isn't a solution, since that would affect WDPS% skills across the board as well. But since we're on the topic, perhaps a % increase socketable for fixed damage spells?

(Or the D2 style of having certain uniques/affixes give you +SP to certain skills would be a way to buffing up some of the fixed damage spells)

sinergistic

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 10:04:51 PM »
Personally, I think embermages are just having teething problems due to focus changes and the majority of sockets needing to be devoted towards damage reduction and health. As gear improves (and is hopefully more tailored towards individual classes instead of the hodgepodge teir 0 'gear') embermages will be able to slot more and more %damage eyes. Maybe even tweak the eyes to offer 20%?

There will be more DR (other than Limoany) available as you progress through Synergies, so your sockets will become more available as you progress through the end game content.
Yes, that is what I was implying/getting at (or at least trying to) :P
Tweaking the eyes for Elemental damage isn't a solution, since that would affect WDPS% skills across the board as well. But since we're on the topic, perhaps a % increase socketable for fixed damage spells?

(Or the D2 style of having certain uniques/affixes give you +SP to certain skills would be a way to buffing up some of the fixed damage spells)

Could work, would need a lot more sockets though unless you just do a blanket increase or something, assuming it's even possible programmatically.

What about using weapondps as some kind of percentage modifier to the base fixed spell damage values? Like take your current weapondps, add it to the low end of a fixed spell damage range, and then divide that by the high end of the same fixed spell damage range?

Like:

( FixedSpellDamageLowEndValue + Weapon DPS ) / FixedSpellDamageHighEndValue? would probably need tweaking though. And a cap to avoid twink abuse.

QuestionSign

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 11:48:15 PM »
Personally, I think embermages are just having teething problems due to focus changes and the majority of sockets needing to be devoted towards damage reduction and health. As gear improves (and is hopefully more tailored towards individual classes instead of the hodgepodge teir 0 'gear') embermages will be able to slot more and more %damage eyes. Maybe even tweak the eyes to offer 20%?

There will be more DR (other than Limoany) available as you progress through Synergies, so your sockets will become more available as you progress through the end game content.
Yes, that is what I was implying/getting at (or at least trying to) :P
Tweaking the eyes for Elemental damage isn't a solution, since that would affect WDPS% skills across the board as well. But since we're on the topic, perhaps a % increase socketable for fixed damage spells?

(Or the D2 style of having certain uniques/affixes give you +SP to certain skills would be a way to buffing up some of the fixed damage spells)

Could work, would need a lot more sockets though unless you just do a blanket increase or something, assuming it's even possible programmatically.

What about using weapondps as some kind of percentage modifier to the base fixed spell damage values? Like take your current weapondps, add it to the low end of a fixed spell damage range, and then divide that by the high end of the same fixed spell damage range?

Like:

( FixedSpellDamageLowEndValue + Weapon DPS ) / FixedSpellDamageHighEndValue? would probably need tweaking though. And a cap to avoid twink abuse.


I never understand the issue of twink abuse lol

Craftea

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 07:22:42 AM »
What about using weapondps as some kind of percentage modifier to the base fixed spell damage values? Like take your current weapondps, add it to the low end of a fixed spell damage range, and then divide that by the high end of the same fixed spell damage range?

Like:

( FixedSpellDamageLowEndValue + Weapon DPS ) / FixedSpellDamageHighEndValue? would probably need tweaking though. And a cap to avoid twink abuse.

I am of the opinion that Fixed damage should be separated from WDPS as far as possible.

Personally, I'm not a fan of skills that have a Fixed damage and WDPS component (e.g. Magma Spear). Having all fixed damage spells include a WDPS component seems iffy to me.

sinergistic

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Re: Embermage CHARGE and STATIC DAMAGEs
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2013, 11:04:27 PM »
I never understand the issue of twink abuse lol

it'd be less twink abuse, and more iffy behavior of fixed damage scaling up as you level, and weapon DPS remaining static. You could end up with a situation where you are getting a huge damage boost from your weapon dps at one level, and a lot less damage after leveling up. A cap would prevent large fluctuations from occurring.

And in trying to explain it, I've decided that doing something like that would be more trouble than it's worth. Far to many corner cases and headaches (people leaving spells unleveled just to get a higher return from WDPS, etc).

So yeah, I agree with you Craftea.

So as I understand it, fixed damage spells are weird in synergies because they aren't benefiting from A) a bigger emphasis on WDPS and B) Higher DPS weapons. This makes them scale poorly into synergies end game content, where mobs have tons of health and armor, yada yada, yes?

The goal is to make sure classes with a large portion of spells that rely on fixed damage aren't left in the dust as more content (harder content) and better weapons are released?


So, some more ideas in that vein.

I) A hidden passive that buffs static damage attached to weapon item level. The higher the item level of the equipped weapon, the bigger the boost from the hidden passive. No WDPS component, but now fixed spells scale with better weapons. (assuming that each tier of weapons is going to have a higher item level than the previous tier)

II) Tie fixed damage value scaling to Level and Fame instead of just Level? (Did synergies increase the fame cap? Or is that vanilla?) May not be doable depending on how fixed damage scaling is implemented in the game.