Author Topic: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery  (Read 10924 times)

Craftea

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 06:48:20 AM »
What I've noticed with the Berserker Charge Bar is that some builds gain Charge ridiculously quickly (e.g. Storm Hatchets), while others cannot gain Charge at all (e.g. Wolfpack).

Since the Berserker gains 100% chance to crit when fully charged, and given how quickly the charge bar fills, this means that:

Builds which gain charge essentially have 100% critical chance. Almost. Frenzy Mastery actually helps these builds because you reduce the duration where you don't have 100% crit (i.e. your down time), by increasing the duration where you do have 100% crit. It is subtle, I suppose.

Think of it this way, if you need 2s of attacking to get from no charge to full charge, then you would simply go like this: 2s of normal crit -> 5s of only crits -> 2s of normal crit -> 5s of only crits etc. etc. (where that 5s, could be 6.5, 7.0, 7.5 etc. etc.)

It is not completely useless, but relatively mild. (depending on builds, your build may even generate charge much, much quicker than in 2s)


As for other builds (i.e. the ones that don't generate charge with their primary attack skill), these builds tend to rely on other forms of generating charge (namely Storm Hatchet). Frenzy Mastery is particularly relevant for these builds, for obvious reasons. You spend less time generating charge, and more time hitting stuff. Simply put, you're more efficient.


Personally, though, I feel the Berserker charge bar trivializes DEX, and +Crit Chance. Since having it at full grants you a +100% Crit, it also means that +%Crit Damage can effectively be treated as +% Damage.

It is a unique aspect of the Berserker, and I'm not sure if lowering the Crit Chance that the Charge bar gives is a good way of fixing it, if it even needs fixing at all.

(P.S.: Also, Banner gives, like +40% Dodge on 15. DEX isn't very useful for Berserkers, apparently)


Probably a bit radical, but how about fusing Blood Hunger and Frenzy Mastery?

This is viable, and I feel there is a line of thought behind fusing these two skills specifically.

Frenzy Mastery may be considered a Charge gaining/retaining skill (technically, it holds your charge there longer), and Blood Hunger is a skill that consistently procs while you are in Frenzy mode (i.e. full charge).

Combining both skills would result in a skill that lets you stay in Frenzy mode longer, and continuously regenerate while in it.

Although, I do feel that Blood Hunger's proc condition is way too generic and applies too far across the board for the Berserker.

BlooDLotuS

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 07:13:24 AM »
Just since they're both universally considered to be 1 pointers, 0 pointer Frenzy for some.

I don't know about viability in synergies, but an increadibly powerful and boring build I've read, is:
Blood Hunger: 15
Executioner: 15
Frenzy Mastery: 15
Shred Armor: 15
Shadow Burst: 1-15
Ice Shield: 15
Whatever else you fancy, like Ravage

Salan

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 11:14:19 PM »
the question will relate then, if we fuse blood hunger  and frenzy mastery... what do we make in frenzy mastery.

Personally I want to work in a more subtle way that would help the non mainstream berserker builds more then the already powerful ones.

What about a proc that does a short duration point blank area of effect around the berserker akin to the skeletal ancients blade barrier.

The berserker is a in your face fighter, this type of skill would be good in conjunction with redwolf and the lightning auto attack builds..  something more for them to effect their immediate area of effect.

Its area of effect wouldn't be great, that circling axe doesn't expand far out.   Nor would does it have to last super long per proc, but we can make it proc enough times to be both useful and enjoyable. 

pure damage?
debuffs enemy?
bleeds?
what type of effect does the berserker need for a close in fighter...
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dreams

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2013, 12:13:40 AM »
I would go for enemy damage debuffs since we already have DR, -armour, -speed etc practically everything else. Maybe something that can tie in with frenzy like Intimidation where when in frenzy enemies in a 5m area get -2% damage for every pnt.

Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 12:46:09 AM »
I assume we're still going ahead with making the Charge Bar hard to build? We might not even need to mess with Frenzy Mastery after that.

I'm probably just biased, I put points into FM for my pre-Synergies Berserker whenever I could.

Salan

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 01:45:14 AM »
I don't know ghost, I don't think it will be a good choice to mess with it.

after reading some of the reasons for it being the way it is I kind of agree that it is easy to be narrow minded on our reasons for changing things.  We have to consider other reasons and the non mainstream things as well in the decision making process.

I'm not sold on it being a good idea to change the charge bar directly, but I'm also not being close minded about the potential of doing so
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BlooDLotuS

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 06:39:22 AM »
Quote
he berserker is a in your face fighter, this type of skill would be good in conjunction with redwolf and the lightning auto attack builds..  something more for them to effect their immediate area of effect.

Its area of effect wouldn't be great, that circling axe doesn't expand far out.   Nor would does it have to last super long per proc, but we can make it proc enough times to be both useful and enjoyable. 

pure damage?
debuffs enemy?
bleeds?
what type of effect does the berserker need for a close in fighter...

Since Rage Retaliation is also considered weak-ish, this would be a great way to buff it, by adding increased range/aoe, and perhaps freeze debuff since it's in the Tundra tree.

Rampage could actually also fuse with another skill.
But like you said, what skill(s) to fill in their place.

Hmm, but don't feel passives should have an overt visual.
Most have none, or very subtle.

Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 07:13:02 AM »
I don't think Rampage should be merged with anything. It needs something, but not a merging.

Rage Retaliation could either use an AOE splash or a much shorter cooldown. I'd vote for the second one, personally.

They deserve their own topics, though.

ytdulu

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 08:51:11 AM »
Frenzy Mastery:

- Gives you 3% chance to summon up to 2 wolfs that do X damage on kill or then you get hit. Each point gives extra 0.5% (10% at rank 15) , and each tier increase by extra 1 wolf (5 total at 15 rank). It won`t summon 5 wolf at rank 15 then you get proc, only 1 at a time and maximum up to 5 with like ~1min summon (wolf) duration.
- Can give also +X% to summon damage.

Since Frenzy Master located in Shadow skill tree it should mainly synergizes with skills arround in shadow tree.
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Craftea

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2013, 09:17:00 AM »
Throwing out random ideas:

Frenzied Strikes
Each successive hit becomes more frenzied, dealing more damage at the risk of fumbling more often. Gains +X% Attack Speed, but +Y% Fumble Chance with each normal attack, for 3 seconds.

Howl of the Spectral Wolf
Once every X seconds, all enemies at melee range have a 100% (+10% each level) chance to flee for 0.5 seconds.

Fury
The Berserker works up a fury, striking multiple times. 100% chance to cast Fury  from Target.

Fury: % chance based on your % Chance to Execute to deal X% WDPS. Applies a stacking debuff that reduces Execute Chance temporarily.

RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2013, 09:51:54 AM »
I somehow recall the WoW Bestial wrath of Beast mastery hunter ...

Maybe something like that would be cool.

-% skill Mana, all kinds of resistance during the frenzy
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Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2013, 10:55:34 AM »
I somehow recall the WoW Bestial wrath of Beast mastery hunter ...

Maybe something like that would be cool.

-% skill Mana, all kinds of resistance during the frenzy

I think we should do something more like this. I say we keep the duration increase as is, but make it more attractive to get by improving Frenzy as well as prolonging it, so the increased duration is more of a 'bonus'.

The question is, how exactly do we do that?

Salan

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2013, 11:07:05 AM »
Throwing out random ideas:

Frenzied Strikes
Each successive hit becomes more frenzied, dealing more damage at the risk of fumbling more often. Gains +X% Attack Speed, but +Y% Fumble Chance with each normal attack, for 3 seconds.

Howl of the Spectral Wolf
Once every X seconds, all enemies at melee range have a 100% (+10% each level) chance to flee for 0.5 seconds.

Fury
The Berserker works up a fury, striking multiple times. 100% chance to cast Fury  from Target.

Fury: % chance based on your % Chance to Execute to deal X% WDPS. Applies a stacking debuff that reduces Execute Chance temporarily.

I had a knockback in a melee skill. And you know how many people hated having to chase mobs a foot when knocked back from being melee hit.  the flee wouldn't work as well as you think I fear.

I have code for frenzied strike on the side here already, I was going to do stuff like that with teh paladin at first. increase damage on crit, lower crit chance.. increase attack speed on hit, increase fumble.  Increase cast speed on hit, reduce mana recharge..  synergizing the skills so to say.
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Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2013, 11:13:59 AM »
I think that was the original idea behind the blessings at first?

I'm fine with that sort of thing in an active, but not so much a passive. For example, Power Attack in D&D, which increases your damage but reduces your hit chance. I certainly wouldn't want that on all the time.

Salan

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2013, 11:17:25 AM »
ya you need to be able to control when its on
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**