Author Topic: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery  (Read 10925 times)

ytdulu

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2013, 11:53:24 AM »
Another idea:

- Have low chance to cast meteor or similar skill on hit, but gets minus -Vit.
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RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2013, 11:58:25 AM »
Another idea:

- Have low chance to cast meteor or similar skill on hit, but gets minus -Vit.

That sounds like tenebris passive.
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Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2013, 12:08:07 PM »
I imagine that would be even more niche a passive than FM already is. Trading off an important stat for a 'small' proc chance for something?

Craftea

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2013, 05:47:42 AM »
I think that was the original idea behind the blessings at first?

I'm fine with that sort of thing in an active, but not so much a passive. For example, Power Attack in D&D, which increases your damage but reduces your hit chance. I certainly wouldn't want that on all the time.

Actually, the idea is that it only procs on basic attacks (% Chance to Cast on Hit affix does that), and that the buffs/debuffs should stack. So you could keep attacking faster... and faster... and faster... and faster, until you fumble everything :P (then that resets after 3s when the buffs time out)

Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2013, 07:52:48 AM »
I think that was the original idea behind the blessings at first?

I'm fine with that sort of thing in an active, but not so much a passive. For example, Power Attack in D&D, which increases your damage but reduces your hit chance. I certainly wouldn't want that on all the time.

Actually, the idea is that it only procs on basic attacks (% Chance to Cast on Hit affix does that), and that the buffs/debuffs should stack. So you could keep attacking faster... and faster... and faster... and faster, until you fumble everything :P (then that resets after 3s when the buffs time out)

And my problem is that it's on all the time. What if I really needed to NOT fumble attacks? I'm screwed.

The exception to the rule is Gaige from Borderlands 2. Anarchy is awesome, for two reasons.
1. It's stupidly, unexplainably fun to build massive damage and equally massive accuracy reduction, because even with a huge accuracy penalty it's still possibly to absolutely wreck the bad guys with the right sort of guns, and
2. It's a core mechanic of an entire tree.

You make the +Speed, +Fumble thing into the Charge Bar or a core ability, even a passive one, and then build the class/tree around that idea, awesome. But I really don't think it'd fly for the Berserker.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 05:50:12 PM by Ghostblade4802 »

RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2013, 01:41:36 PM »
I think that was the original idea behind the blessings at first?

I'm fine with that sort of thing in an active, but not so much a passive. For example, Power Attack in D&D, which increases your damage but reduces your hit chance. I certainly wouldn't want that on all the time.

Actually, the idea is that it only procs on basic attacks (% Chance to Cast on Hit affix does that), and that the buffs/debuffs should stack. So you could keep attacking faster... and faster... and faster... and faster, until you fumble everything :P (then that resets after 3s when the buffs time out)


You can stack this buff and when it reaches 100% fumble you can switch to a high DPS skill like wolfpack or raze. The skill damage would have a too high boost from the attack speed.
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Craftea

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2013, 05:36:10 AM »
You can stack this buff and when it reaches 100% fumble you can switch to a high DPS skill like wolfpack or raze. The skill damage would have a too high boost from the attack speed.

That is the idea. You rack up the damage, fill your charge bar, and unleash massive amounts of pain.

You make the +Speed, +Fumble thing into the Charge Bar or a core ability, even a passive one, and then build the class/tree around that idea, awesome. But I really don't think it'd fly for the Berserker.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think Crit takes priority over fumbles? (e.g. if I had 100% crit, and 100% fumble, I would still always crit?)

The idea I had was that the skill would synergise with the Charge bar, due to the 100% crit (and hence 0% fumble). The Berserker would still be able to attack, and you would deal even more damage than you normally would. (extra style points with Red Wolf too)

When the charge bar wears off, WDPS skills could be switched in to generate charge.

(although if Crit doesn't take prority over fumbles, then scrap everything I said :()

dreams

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2013, 06:17:25 AM »
You can't crit a fumble and you can't fumble a skill. Fumble takes priority in auto attacks.

RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2013, 11:28:37 AM »

(although if Crit doesn't take prority over fumbles, then scrap everything I said :()

 :( Unfortunately when you have 100% crit you still fumble if fumble% > 0
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Salan

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 10:40:09 PM »
Its fine, its not going to be able to be able to change to a stacking buff.

Lets get back on focus.

Should frenzy be combined with Blood hunger and I create a whole new skill for frenzy?
would this combined skill be Op, or a 1 point wonder, or just right?
if it is not combined.  What can we do to add to frenzy without rewriting it, adding something and tweaking what is there.
and if it is combined, I will want to make an auto attack passive to help the autoattack builds out!
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Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2013, 12:02:36 AM »
Combining both skills won't address the issues of either. Blood Hunger is still a one-point wonder, with a few bonus seconds on Frenzy.

I'm going to experiment with adding affixes to the Frenzy buff when I get back. I'm sure this is doable, and might be the best way to handle it.

Blood Hunger just needs a scaling fix to make putting points into it worth it. And perhaps some other buff, maybe a slight AS boost for the two seconds your regenerating. Or maybe regenerating a small portion of Mana too.

And auto-attack builds are pretty good - Stormclaw, Shadowbind, Blood Hunger, Red Wolf, Shred Armour, Executioner... they got plenty of stuff already.

Not that another skill is a bad thing,  but AA builds certainly don't need 'help'.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 02:15:18 AM by Ghostblade4802 »

BlooDLotuS

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2013, 03:42:59 AM »
Played my vanilla Icezerker a bit again last night and came to a realization.

Which skill would you rather max?

Blood Hunger or Frenzy Mastery?

Frenzy Mastery wins for me.

Frenzy could do with a minor buff of some sort, but
The problem then is really, how to buff BH without making it OP.

Merging them, still seems plausible.


Best replacement skill like I posted in the Rampage thread, would be a Bleed of some sort.

Craftea

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2013, 04:15:29 AM »
Should frenzy be combined with Blood hunger and I create a whole new skill for frenzy?

I think combining the two skills is fine.

would this combined skill be Op, or a 1 point wonder, or just right?

I think it entirely depends on the numbers. It's hard to tell if a skill will be OP before it even exists. As for 1 point wonders, proper scaling should prevent that.

if it is not combined.  What can we do to add to frenzy without rewriting it, adding something and tweaking what is there.

I think the Frenzy mechanic of 100% Crits makes any build that consistently goes into Frenzy basically ignore any kind of Crit Chance gear. Personally, I think Frenzy should not give 100% Crit chance. Perhaps a viable change would be to swap the buffs from Rampage with Frenzy? (i.e. Frenzy gives speeds boost, and Rampage gives Crit chance, also whoops wrong topic :P)

and if it is combined, I will want to make an auto attack passive to help the autoattack builds out!

The only affixes (to my knowledge) that affects auto attacks, but don't affect any other skills are:

Life / Mana Steal (of any kind, although Frost Breath benefits from this)
On Hit procs (which aren't used at all in vanilla TL2 except for Engineer's Supercharge Weapon)
% damage to Secondary Targets (the affix no one ever cares about?)

Something based on an On Hit proc could be viable.

Ghostblade4802

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2013, 05:06:37 AM »
If there's one thing I'm totally against, it's killing the 100% Frenzy crit chance.

It's not really about balance here, it's about the experience of getting Frenzy and having every single attack critically hit. It's awesome, and it's available from level 1, which makes it incredibly special there.

Please, don't nerf Frenzy crit chance.


Blood Hunger seems like a reasonably easy fix to me, keep the end result (12%) the same and just mess with the scaling so it's worth investing all those points into it. Starting at 3.8% and going up by .8% per level might work.

dreams

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Re: FOCUS 1C: Frenzy Mastery
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2013, 05:34:38 AM »
Considering that blood hunger that is so crucial to the zerkers survival only procs during crits, killing the 100% frenzy crit chance would seriously impact their survivability early game. Is 100% crit really that strong? ??? I think most of the end game players has around 60% to 70% crit chance where it is already high enough that most hits crits. The 100% dont really makes a difference end game.