Author Topic: FOCUS 2: Engineer  (Read 4828 times)

Salan

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FOCUS 2: Engineer
« on: October 09, 2013, 01:53:15 PM »
Alright, so the engineer needs tweaking.  Almost everyon agree's on it.

From skills that become tricky to skills that become a crutch.  The idea here won't be to redisgn the class, but to look at changing things to allow it to have more options in how it is played rather then less.

I want to use THIS thread to discuss potential focus topics.

We all know Forcefield is likely to be the first out of the gate, but lets be sure we're considering it for the right reasons.
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RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 04:51:21 PM »
For FF, IMO the base absorption is ok however the charge bonus is too much.
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Momiji

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 05:05:56 PM »
For FF, IMO the base absorption is ok however the charge bonus is too much.

Is it possible to change the charge bonus the more levels invested into it? Or at each tier bonus? The bonus doesn't help THAT much at lower levels...but it's quite OP later on. I agree that the base absorption is alright, just later on FF gets ridiculous...especially for some builds (one's that don't use much charges)

Momiji

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 05:06:31 PM »
For FF, IMO the base absorption is ok however the charge bonus is too much.

Is it possible to change the charge bonus the more levels invested into it? Or at each tier bonus? The bonus helps quite a bit at lower levels...but it's quite OP later on. I agree that the base absorption is alright, just later on FF gets ridiculous...especially for some builds (one's that don't use much charges)

Salan

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 05:56:49 PM »
Remember this post is for identify subjects to make a topic about.  Not discuss the Individual topics
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:40:48 AM by Salan »
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 06:51:08 PM »
I'm just going to quickly go across the board for a bunch of skills.

Heal Bot
Every single Engineer build in existence dumps 15 points into this. Not sure if this needs a nerf, or just everything else needs to be buffed up.

Charge Reconstitution
Heals way too little, and only has excellent synergy with Flame Hammer, since that eats charges rapidly.

Sword and Board
Too weak.

Bulwark
Physical Armor is practically worthless end game, and Physical % reduction is useless if you're going to max out DR for Elemental resistances.

Aegis of Fate
Scales poorly into the end game, plus getting hit in the end game is also generally bad. And proc chance is pretty low.

Supercharge Weapon
Outclassed by Shield Bash and Dynamo Field as charge gaining skills

Ember Hammer
1 pointer for the purposes of breaking shields

Onslaught
1 pointer for the escape/slow

Heavy Lifting
Stun is lackluster in the end game, and I personally feel the attack speed buff is too minor.

Coup de Grace
Proc condition is way too difficult to achieve on bosses/champions/elite/hero

Ember Reach
Usually only works on normal mobs, and even then, some resist it. The stun portion is useless because its single target. Mostly used for the damage amplify, although Tremor has far better effects and a damage amplify itself.

Gun Bot
AI is completely wonky before the Range Increase Tier upgrade.

Shock Grenades/Seismic Slam
Mainly stun-based skills, but stun sucks. Damage is relatively low.

Fusillade
(P.S.: I don't really play Cannoneers)
I've heard stuff about wonky target detection from this skill, not sure if true.

Flame Bash
Static Fire damage too low, Shield based damage is lower than Shield Bash. Pretty much only used for the %FireDamage Amplify Tier 3 bonus.

Shield Bash
One of the best support skills, although as a main offensive skill, it falls off later into the game. (Not necessarily the most important thing to change, but it could lead to dedicated Shield Bashers)

Storm Burst
Poor DPS skill. Mostly used as an escape spell, or to regenerate mana? Although most Engineers just rely on the passive Heal Bot, and pots which are more than enough.

Overload
Static damage, eats all your charges, and has a cooldown. I feel the damage is too low, for the price of losing all your charges.

Charge Domination
I don't use this at all. I prefer to rely on Shield Bash/Dynamo. Maybe someone else has an opinion on it?

Emberquake
Fixed Fire damage, might be something to look at.
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ytdulu

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 12:37:59 AM »
I'm just going to quickly go across the board for a bunch of skills.

Heal Bot
Every single Engineer build in existence dumps 15 points into this. Not sure if this needs a nerf, or just everything else needs to be buffed up.

Charge Reconstitution
Heals way too little, and only has excellent synergy with Flame Hammer, since that eats charges rapidly.

Sword and Board
Too weak.

Bulwark
Physical Armor is practically worthless end game, and Physical % reduction is useless if you're going to max out DR for Elemental resistances.

Aegis of Fate
Scales poorly into the end game, plus getting hit in the end game is also generally bad. And proc chance is pretty low.

Supercharge Weapon
Outclassed by Shield Bash and Dynamo Field as charge gaining skills

Ember Hammer
1 pointer for the purposes of breaking shields

Onslaught
1 pointer for the escape/slow

Heavy Lifting
Stun is lackluster in the end game, and I personally feel the attack speed buff is too minor.

Coup de Grace
Proc condition is way too difficult to achieve on bosses/champions/elite/hero

Ember Reach
Usually only works on normal mobs, and even then, some resist it. The stun portion is useless because its single target. Mostly used for the damage amplify, although Tremor has far better effects and a damage amplify itself.

Gun Bot
AI is completely wonky before the Range Increase Tier upgrade.

Shock Grenades/Seismic Slam
Mainly stun-based skills, but stun sucks. Damage is relatively low.

Fusillade
(P.S.: I don't really play Cannoneers)
I've heard stuff about wonky target detection from this skill, not sure if true.

Flame Bash
Static Fire damage too low, Shield based damage is lower than Shield Bash. Pretty much only used for the %FireDamage Amplify Tier 3 bonus.

Shield Bash
One of the best support skills, although as a main offensive skill, it falls off later into the game. (Not necessarily the most important thing to change, but it could lead to dedicated Shield Bashers)

Storm Burst
Poor DPS skill. Mostly used as an escape spell, or to regenerate mana? Although most Engineers just rely on the passive Heal Bot, and pots which are more than enough.

Overload
Static damage, eats all your charges, and has a cooldown. I feel the damage is too low, for the price of losing all your charges.

Charge Domination
I don't use this at all. I prefer to rely on Shield Bash/Dynamo. Maybe someone else has an opinion on it?

Emberquake
Fixed Fire damage, might be something to look at.

Agree with all.
Fussillade is chanelling and missiles AI are very bad.
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Salan

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 12:41:11 AM »
sorry i haven't done anything with the berserker or this yet, ive been madly programming the warlock... almost done 1 tree complete rework!
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

ytdulu

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 02:48:53 AM »
sorry i haven't done anything with the berserker or this yet, ive been madly programming the warlock... almost done 1 tree complete rework!

No need to jump on that to do first. Complete warlock! Vanilla classes can wait.
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dreams

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 05:51:34 AM »
Out of the long list only agree with the following

Charge Reconstitution
Heals way too little

Sword and Board
Either boost the skill or boost shield armour

Bulwark
Armor is not useful end game. Need improvement on armor mechanics

Aegis of Fate
When hit effects are generally poor.

Ember Hammer
Conflicts with FF and anything that does that is going to lose out.

Coup de Grace
Proc condition is way too difficult to achieve on bosses/champions/elite/hero

Ember Reach
Phy damage is very limiting will be more useful as all damage.

Gun Bot
CD is very limiting

Fusillade
Poor targeting.

Flame Bash
See S&B

Storm Burst
Same problem as shock bolts. Bolts targeting is poor

Basically the rest is the same for all classes. The fixed value skills.

Salan

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 05:52:43 AM »
I'll look through the berserker lists tomorrow, and start new ones for some of these individually
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Craftea

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 10:57:48 AM »
Sword and Board
Either boost the skill or boost shield armour

Boosting Shield Armor will also impact other things, like Shield Bash, Fire Bash and Aegis of Fate. Also, I think it will increase shield prices across the board (pun not intended).

Bulwark
Armor is not useful end game. Need improvement on armor mechanics

Flame Bash
See S&B

Armor mechanics can't be changed, sadly. However, it would be useful if more of the Engineer's skills relied on armor. e.g. Summons could gain health/armor based on your armor, Aegis of Fate could actually be useful etc. etc.

Considering how most classes have that "generic stat boost" passive, I think Engineer should retain his. Although, it could use something to replace the Physical DR component.

As for Fire Bash, I think it just needs a boost on the shield multiplier.

Aegis of Fate
When hit effects are generally poor.

Especially when linked to your survivability :P

Ember Hammer
Conflicts with FF and anything that does that is going to lose out.

I think FF consuming charges is the problem here, and not EH itself.

Gun Bot
CD is very limiting

That's an issue with most summons/buffs in general though.

Ember Reach
Phy damage is very limiting will be more useful as all damage.

Not really too sure what could be done about this skill. It seems to be between a debuff and a utility spell, but isn't particularly good at either.

RaymondLi

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 11:48:46 AM »

Ember Hammer
Conflicts with FF and anything that does that is going to lose out.
I think FF consuming charges is the problem here, and not EH itself.
EH doesn't consume any charge. 
The problem of EH is too slow cast animation and the charge bonus is not working correctly. (Tier 3 said 15%, however even with full charges I can only have a 50% all damage bonus buff, where I think full charge should get 75% or 90% at least)


Ember Reach
Phy damage is very limiting will be more useful as all damage.

Not really too sure what could be done about this skill. It seems to be between a debuff and a utility spell, but isn't particularly good at either.

Physical damage could be 56% more due to lv 15 ember reach. It's a huge boost for shield bash build.


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dreams

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2013, 08:42:36 PM »

Ember Hammer
Conflicts with FF and anything that does that is going to lose out.
I think FF consuming charges is the problem here, and not EH itself.
EH doesn't consume any charge. 
The problem of EH is too slow cast animation and the charge bonus is not working correctly. (Tier 3 said 15%, however even with full charges I can only have a 50% all damage bonus buff, where I think full charge should get 75% or 90% at least)


The conflict here is that for max damage EH needs full charge but charge is usually reserved for FF. That wouldnt be such a problem if EH is a spammable skill that builds charge but that is not the case. And to worsen the case after building and saving all that charge, EH's dmg and range isnt all that great either. It has poor synergy with the rest of skills.

Ember Reach
Phy damage is very limiting will be more useful as all damage.

Not really too sure what could be done about this skill. It seems to be between a debuff and a utility spell, but isn't particularly good at either.

Physical damage could be 56% more due to lv 15 ember reach. It's a huge boost for shield bash build.


Precisely. It is actually a good support for shield bash build and only shield bash. Thats why i said the skill having only phy damage is very limiting will be more useful as all damage.

BlooDLotuS

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Re: FOCUS 2: Engineer
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 05:04:38 AM »
My main problem with the ENG is the underutilization of the Charge Bar.
IMO, too few skills affect/are affected by Charges, seriously...


Apart from those ready mentioned and the obvious:


Flame Hammer/EmberQuake
Comparing the two, Quake heavily outclasses FH, consumes no charges, homing fussures of death.

Ember Hammer
Major problem, it's no more than a 1pt wonder, unless you deliberately specialise in it.
It's also visually lackluster, just swing swing swing...

Storm Burst
It discharges bolts?
One can hardly even notice them...
Tier 2 bonus is worthless IMO.
And why wait so long for 1s cooldown?   

CdG
Works ok in vanilla, but in Synergies, bosses are highly resistant/immune to stun, right?

Heal Bot, Gun Bot, Sledgebot
Like with all/most summons, I'd like it if they ALL had HP, no duration.
Nerf/buff as needed of course, but perhaps this is a personal gripe

Shock Grenades
Weak much? (Last I read)
So much for my Grenadier build hey