Author Topic: Focus 2b: Sword and Board  (Read 4888 times)

Salan

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Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« on: October 14, 2013, 11:08:51 AM »
it is regularly agreed on that this is rather lackluster of a choice in comparison to what you get from this and other skills.

Lets make this one better, not always needing to nerf things everytime!
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Craftea

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 11:44:07 AM »
Sword and Board (as everyone knows) applies a % of your Shield's physical armor as physical damage.

However, the skill is relatively weak because it does not scale off anything else.

+% Physical Armor and Vitality does not improve the bonus damage of Sword & Board.

Strength / Focus does not improve the bonus damage of Sword & Board.

I'm currently unsure of how +% to All Damage interacts with Sword & Board, but I'm going to make a wild guess and say that such affixes function in a similar fashion to STR/FOC damage scaling, and thus do not affect Sword & Board.


I have a few suggestions to fix Sword & Board.

1. Allow Sword & Board to scale with +% Physical Armor and Vitality.
+% Physical Armor is a relatively useless affix, and this would give some use to it. Bulwark and Heal Bot also provide +% Physical Armor, so there is some skill synergy going on there. Vitality is always a useful stat for melee classes, and SNB Engineers are primarily a melee class. This would probably allow Engineers to scale into end game, since there are Enchantments and Sockets for +% Physical Armor.

2. Sword & Board considers total physical armor value instead of just the shield.
SNB would tie in well with Aegis of Fate which uses a similar mechanic, and SNB Engineers have a reason to try to get high physical armor values. (Of course, Aegis of Fate needs to be reasonably buffed first......)

3. Sword & Board considers all armor values (Ice, Poison, Fire, Electric) instead of simply just Physical.
This would outright improve SNB although certain Shields with Elemental Resistances would be favored. Naturally, Fire/Electric Armors would be favored due to Fire & Spark.

4. Sword & Board scales with STR/FOC.
Very self explanatory suggestion. Any skill which doesn't scale well sucks at the end game. This is one of the ways to have SNB scale.

5. Increase the % multiplier for SNB.
Another duh, but I guess it needed to be stated just for convenience/completion's sake. Hopefully, this would be the last option to consider.

Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 06:49:41 PM »
Two of Craftea's suggestions was to A) increase the Damage from Shield Armour and B) scale by Total Armour as well.

I think we should do both of these.

Salan

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 07:32:45 PM »
We will go with ghost and craftea on this one.  No reason to wait around.  Its reaonable to scale it
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
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**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 07:36:35 PM »
I think scaling it up was always the answer, and adding the total armour synergy just makes sense. The question is, scaling up by how much?

Salan

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 01:22:40 PM »
that will take testing.. i am doing a lot of scaling on the warlock its REALLY tricky.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

BlooDLotuS

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 05:30:04 PM »
This idea will be hated of course, but Sword & Board, Bash, Fire Bash would seem way more at home on the Paladin.

Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 06:45:07 PM »
I took Fire Bash and Sword and Board out of the Paladin >.<

Salan

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 06:45:37 PM »
doesn't matter if its hated or not, this isn't about remaking the skills in most of these cases, but making them work with the changed environment.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

BlooDLotuS

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 05:11:03 AM »
In what weapons classes does the Paladin specialise in btw?

Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 11:12:20 AM »
One-handed and two-handed melee, as well as shields and dual wield.

RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 11:16:50 AM »
You guys are off topic.   ;D ;D

Tho I do like to see a skill for paladin working like avenger's shield in WoW. 
Can use the shield bask damage scaling and glaive throwing effects. But need a brand new animation.

Back to the sword and board, is it possible to make it like CdG?
At least we can try to make it scale with Focus/Strength(/even vitality) since some passive like CdG can.
Display +X (physical) damage instead of simply Y% shield armor in the tooltip,
while X is a number scaled with shield. And +X could be amplified by stats.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 11:20:48 AM by RaymondLi »
Anu belore dela'na

Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 12:27:35 PM »
We could, but I don't really see the point? Sword and Board adds Armour to Damage, and Strength and Focus already add to Damage (in different ways). And scaling it with Vitality as well might be overkill, since Vitality itself increases %Armour.

Unless we change what the skill actually does, which I would be in favour of (you can do a lot with the name "Sword and Board"), but I'm not sure Salan wants to go down that route.

Salan

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 01:43:52 PM »
I'm just taking a more cautious route with the base classes, and leaving more of the creative stuff for our own.

why put your awesome idea in a base class and potentially upset people when you can put it in a new class in a completely clean slate fashion?
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

BlooDLotuS

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Re: Focus 2b: Sword and Board
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 02:53:59 PM »
One-handed and two-handed melee, as well as shields and dual wield.

Sounds a lot like the ENG, doesn't it?
All I'm saying is, that every class needs weapon classes to specialise in, and shields on the ENG seems like one too many.
Would be great if they were replaced with more Cannon based skills.

If you're making a Paladin with Shield based skills, go all out, and let the ENG be the heavy weaps specialist.

Bringing something new to the vanilla classes won't upset too many, in fact I'd like to think it'd reinvigorate them.

I'm a theme freak, I know, sorry :/


ON TOPIC:
Adding a defensive apsect to SnB might be a good start perhaps?
Lvl 15 is also what, 90% of Shield Armor, right, little low hey...