Author Topic: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade  (Read 7380 times)

RaymondLi

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For the discussion for these 2 cannon skills.

The idea here will not be to rework the skill, but to make it more reasonable without gutting the build.

:)
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RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 04:19:23 PM »
IMO Blast cannon may need some buff -- only on charge building.

Fusillade needs to make its projectile hit radius bigger -- right now people always complain about its missing rate.
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Salan

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 06:58:23 PM »
it would be nice if the cannons can build charge, I wonder if they don't because of things like FF being out of control on the ranged skills vs the melee ones.
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Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 08:18:19 PM »
I'd give Blast Cannon a 50% reduction to charge generation at least. It can hit a lot of people.

RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 10:24:16 PM »
it would be nice if the cannons can build charge, I wonder if they don't because of things like FF being out of control on the ranged skills vs the melee ones.

Yep. So I think maybe FF can be nerfed a bit on the charge bonus. No one answered that post thou.
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RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2013, 11:29:07 PM »
I'd give Blast Cannon a 50% reduction to charge generation at least. It can hit a lot of people.

Agree.

What do you think for Fusillade?

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Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 12:28:26 AM »
I'm not sure, never used it. Maybe make it always deal AOE damage and change the tiers to:
- Releases 3 rockets
- Releases 4 rockets
- Releases 5 rockets

And maybe up the damage a little, so it's 60% or 65% of WDPS at max level.

dreams

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 04:40:27 AM »
Not so sure about blast cannon building charge, it is actually a good skill as it is. Considering the most common range skills (blast cannon, mines, fusillade) dont consume charge, all charge gain will be devoted to FF making the build too good. Just like how selsmic slam, onslaught and emberquake synthesizes so well for melee. Unless we make Fusillade consume charge to increase the AOE? Hmmmmm....


Ghostblade4802

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 06:41:10 AM »
I think even a little charge generation (even at 20%) for Blast Cannon is a good thing. Quality of Life for Cannoneers.

Fusillade draining charge per shot could work pretty well.

RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 10:34:11 AM »
Not so sure about blast cannon building charge, it is actually a good skill as it is. Considering the most common range skills (blast cannon, mines, fusillade) dont consume charge, all charge gain will be devoted to FF making the build too good. Just like how selsmic slam, onslaught and emberquake synthesizes so well for melee. Unless we make Fusillade consume charge to increase the AOE? Hmmmmm....

Put mines here is weird. They are minion damages.

I think even a little charge generation (even at 20%) for Blast Cannon is a good thing. Quality of Life for Cannoneers.

Fusillade draining charge per shot could work pretty well.

Agree.
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dreams

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 10:57:50 AM »
Put mines here is weird. They are minion damages.

They are? Oic description says minions damage. How does the DOT work then? Minion or FOC?

RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 11:30:09 AM »
Put mines here is weird. They are minion damages.

They are? Oic description says minions damage. How does the DOT work then? Minion or FOC?

Minion. At least the skill file says so.
This is the affix the spidermine uses.
[AFFIXES]
      <STRING>AFFIX:DUMMY_RAILMAN_SPIDERMINE_DAMAGE
[/AFFIXES]

This is the dummy_railman_spidemine_damage.dat.
[AFFIX]
   <STRING>NAME:DUMMY_RAILMAN_SPIDERMINE_DAMAGE
   <INTEGER>RANK:0
   <INTEGER>MIN_SPAWN_RANGE:0
   <INTEGER>MAX_SPAWN_RANGE:100
   <FLOAT>DURATION:0
   <INTEGER>WEIGHT:0
   <INTEGER>SLOTS_OCCUPY:0
   [EFFECT]
      <STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
      <STRING>DURATION:INSTANT
      <STRING>TYPE:MINIONDAMAGE
      <STRING>GRAPHOVERRIDE:DAMAGE_MINION_BYLEVEL
      <BOOL>USEOWNERLEVEL:true
      <FLOAT>MIN:66
      <FLOAT>MAX:66
      <FLOAT>MINFORCE:0
      <FLOAT>MAXFORCE:0
   [/EFFECT]
   [EFFECT]
      <STRING>ACTIVATION:DYNAMIC
      <STRING>DURATION:3
      <STRING>TYPE:MINIONDAMAGE
      <STRING>DAMAGE_TYPE:FIRE
      <STRING>GRAPHOVERRIDE:DAMAGE_MINION_BYLEVEL
      <BOOL>USEOWNERLEVEL:true
      <FLOAT>MIN:50
      <FLOAT>MAX:50
      <FLOAT>MINFORCE:0
      <FLOAT>MAXFORCE:0
   [/EFFECT]
[/AFFIX]
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potterman28wxcv

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 05:01:42 PM »
I think even a little charge generation (even at 20%) for Blast Cannon is a good thing. Quality of Life for Cannoneers.

Fusillade draining charge per shot could work pretty well.

As a canoneer, I have always used Charge Domination to build charges. When it's maxed, it procs very often, and as you won't melee the monsters, there is no real need to build charges quicker. But that opinion is personal.

If we consider there is a need to build charges for canoneer,  IMO I would more see Fusillade as a building charge skill rather than Blast Cannon. Fusillade would be the kind of equivalent of Dynamo. You spawn random rockets, and gains some charge everytime a monster is hit. The more monster there is, the faster the charge regeneration is. And it would give players a real reason to invest in Fusillade

Actually, even if the Fusillade dmg and/or AOE is tweaked, Blast Cannon will still be better :
1) it is a good DPS for Bosses
2) it can takes down entire columns of monsters.
So If we talk about DPS, fusillade would only be useful when the engineer is circled by monsters (it's the only case where Blast Canon is uneffective). But it doesn't happen often, because the canoneer shoots whenever he sees monsters, and he always try to make the monster stay in front of him

That's why i was thinking of Fusillade more as a building charge skill and/or a debuff skill (ie dmg increased by x% for every monsters hit by a missile, or each missile having a chance to stun)

RaymondLi

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 06:06:56 PM »

As a canoneer, I have always used Charge Domination to build charges. When it's maxed, it procs very often, and as you won't melee the monsters, there is no real need to build charges quicker. But that opinion is personal.

If we consider there is a need to build charges for canoneer,  IMO I would more see Fusillade as a building charge skill rather than Blast Cannon. Fusillade would be the kind of equivalent of Dynamo. You spawn random rockets, and gains some charge everytime a monster is hit. The more monster there is, the faster the charge regeneration is. And it would give players a real reason to invest in Fusillade

Actually, even if the Fusillade dmg and/or AOE is tweaked, Blast Cannon will still be better :
1) it is a good DPS for Bosses
2) it can takes down entire columns of monsters.
So If we talk about DPS, fusillade would only be useful when the engineer is circled by monsters (it's the only case where Blast Canon is uneffective). But it doesn't happen often, because the canoneer shoots whenever he sees monsters, and he always try to make the monster stay in front of him

That's why i was thinking of Fusillade more as a building charge skill and/or a debuff skill (ie dmg increased by x% for every monsters hit by a missile, or each missile having a chance to stun)

Fusillade has its own advantages due to the multiple projectile attack.
It's stronger when you are a DoT/spell trigger build.
The mechanism is good.
However, unlike other simlar skills, the missing rate or homing AI is really bad.

Charge Domination is good for a boss fight which the boss summons a lot of minions.
Cannoners is lack of ability to build enough charges compared with melee engineers.
They have onslaught, supercharge, shield bash, etc.

If people think it would be OP that the blast cannon has a % charge ability, we can make it like a shield bash, one time generate 0.5 charge.










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Miothan

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Re: Focus 2d: Engineer cannon skills -- blast cannon and fusillade
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 08:38:55 PM »
I think even a little charge generation (even at 20%) for Blast Cannon is a good thing. Quality of Life for Cannoneers.

Fusillade draining charge per shot could work pretty well.

Blast Cannon needs something else than the +28% fire damage debuff to make it worth investing in, right now its pointless to put 15 points into it when you can just blast everything easily with Fusilade (For end-game, which is what i focus on), Blast Cannon should either be made a Charge spender OR a debuff ability with/without a cooldown, blind doesnt work on any bosses as Salan already informed us ages ago so the tier bonus is useless for end-game activities.

Tier 1, +5% physical and fire damage, +2 debuff duration.
Tier 2, adds additional +10% physical and Fire damage, +2 debuff duration.
Tier 3, adds additional +15% physical and Fire damage +2 debuff duration.

Ends up with a grand totall of +58% fire and physical damage debuff for 10 seconds, that would be worth 15 points imo since it boosts the damage of other abilities.

Would be good to allow Blast Cannon to give charge at 100% so you had an actuall cannon attack that you can use to charge your bar.

Fusilade should get a dmg boost with 2 more rockets from the tier bonus( 6 rockets at tier 3) since its lackluster compared to Emberquake and Flame hammer. The range can be annoying, but usually solved by getting the sledgebot out and tank stuff for you, works on bosses aswell for a while untill it gets crushed ^^, would enjoy if it had a 0 range tho, but i guess it wouldent be as unique of a skill if it was?. From an end-game perspective i view the cannoneer as sub-par since the damage is lacking and to do well you need to re-position yourself all the time which adds to the time it takes to kill stuff.

Fusilade tier bonus:

Tier1: 4 Rockets are released per Burst. +5% damage per charge. Uses 1 charge if available.
Tier2: 5 Rockets are released per Burst. +10% damage per charge. Uses 1 charge if available.
Tier3: 6 Rockers are released per Burst. +15% damage per charge. Uses 1 charge if available. (Each tier bonus does not stack with eachother, so its only +15% damage per charge when you take the Tier3 bonus for a totall of +75% damage bonus on a full charge bar)

Allowing for Burst Cannon to gain Charges and for Fusilade to gain damage bonus per charge gained would change the end-game for Cannoners to use Blast Cannon then switch to Fusilade (If the dmg bonus from the charges will be worth it, dunno if it will compared to just spamming Fusilade). Engineer wouldent do too much damage simply because it takes some time to gather charges unless you are surrounded by enemies and use Dynamo field a few times, but most bosses do not spawn more than 3 mobs and using Dynamo field means you arent doing any decent damage for a few seconds anyway.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 08:42:35 PM by Miothan »
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