Author Topic: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me  (Read 10821 times)

Eno37

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Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« on: February 19, 2014, 05:33:41 PM »
Hey there..just got back into the game..trying out the warlock..very flashy..love the gfx..but I dont understand the charge bar ..it rarely goes above 2 and doesnt seem to affect anything. The Werewolf says it need15 charge to summon but summons with zero and is super powerful(and very kool looking). Also with the passive bonus'..do you need a shield for the block one? A weapon that doesnt secondary dmg for the secondary damage one ?

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 09:00:55 PM »
Does it say REQUIRES or costs? (i'll check when im home from work)

The warlock has no weapon or equipment restrictions on any of their spells.   Its unique in that fact.   You can take any spell with any piece of equipment.  The  block one does not require a shield, the crit one does not require a secondary splash weapon.

with all NetherVoid and HellFire spells they generate and cost Hellfire and NetherEssence.    They do NOT require it thou.  When casting blade barrier for instance it will subtract 5 hellfire and 10 netheressence from your pool, the minimum a pool can go to is 0.   If you are at 0, it stays at 0.

It use to require the resource to cast, but back then the resource was also a lot harder to get, it might work in todays warlock but I have already moved past that point far enough that I am not likely to go back to it at the moment.

The big thing about ALL combat spells for teh warlock in the HF and NV pages thou is that the resource they generate are also damage coeffecients within the class itself.   Your Eruption skill and NetherSpike skills for instance both subtract resources, AND their damage output is directly tied to how much of that resource you have when you are casting the spell.  The higher the hellfire the more DOT your eruption does, and the higher the netheressence the more direct damage your netherspikes do.

So casting them back and forth between each other would keep you at 0 for both resources and both spells would both work, neither would be as strong as it should/ or could be.

Also note that ANY spell that adds or subtracts NE / HF from either the void or fire page's will also subtract DOUBLE the amount of the opposing resource.  BladeBarrier costs 5 hellfire, but also subtracts 10 NetherEssence.  and Burning blade generates 2 hellfire but subtracts 4 netheressence.

Hence the reason you are likely staying at 0 of the resource. 

Mana tree generates BOTH resources throughtout its spells with only the werewolf subtracting any.


My netherslasher build for instance uses Nether as most of its spells, with a grouping of mana spells and 1 fire spell thrown in.
I am careful in what order I cast the spells to negate as much of a loss of resource as possible.

People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Deamones

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 07:40:56 AM »
This caracter's spell mechanic is interesting. I like they fact that you need to actually think how you cast things to optimize your dps instead of a button smashing festival!

Bue

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 08:16:47 AM »
Well, it's still a button mashing festival, just a thoughtful one :)

Regards,
Bue

GuardianOfTheFlame

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 05:28:46 AM »
Hi all!
This is my first post and first of all I would like to thanks Salan and all the other guys for their great work  :D

Speaking about the Warlock I really enjoy this class, but I had difficulties to understand how the charge bar and some skills work.
Now I understand it better, but I think the wording is unclear and counter-intuitive (especially if you are a card game and boardgame player as I am  :P )
In all games I played, you CANNOT play or use an ability if you can't pay the ENTIRE cost (after all is the same meaning used in real life  ;) ) while requirements don't usually imply the spending of resources.
I also have similar misunderstanding with the Paladin class.

I would suggest to use the same standard wording in all classes following these guidelines:
- cost X means that you MUST SPEND X resources (hellfire, nethervoid or charge points) in order to use the skill. If you don't have enough resources, you CANNOT use it.
- require X means that you MUST HAVE X resources/attributes, but you don't have to pay anything unless stated otherwise. For example if the text says "requires 55 STRENGTH" you don't have to spend STR points. I don't know if it can be useful in Torchlight, however you could combine the 2 keywords; for example "The skill requires 50 hellfire points and it costs 10 hellfire points". This should mean that you cannot use the skill unless you have AT LEAST 50 hellfire points, but you spend only 10 points each time you activate the skill.
- consume X means that you can use the skill regardless the amount of resources you have. The activation consumes X resources from your pool, if you don't have enough then it consumes all resources available.
I should use the word "consume" in the description of Warlock skills.

I have another question about the charge bar of the Warlock class:
- do HellFire or NetherVoid points grant some bonuses to the Warlock or they are only used by skills? If they grant bonuses, in which way?
I often accumulate something like 40-50 points of NetherVoid, because my main spell is netherbolts and I only use Mana Storm in battle; all other skills are used before (Blade Barrier, Summon Dragon, Mana Shield) 8-)
My Warlock is currently at level 20.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 02:56:23 PM by GuardianOfTheFlame »

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 12:56:01 PM »
awesome feedback thank you!
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 12:59:14 PM »
I am changing it all to consume, I am also checking the charge bar for its display of the affix, its suppose to show the % bonus increases.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 01:02:43 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.  I hadn't searched for the charge bar effect enough, it seems the warlock chargebar was MISSING its stat input, and wouldn't display the bonus as it should have been.

it will be from now on.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 01:59:23 PM »


the live version has / instead of \ for the dividers
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 02:04:03 PM by Salan »
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

GuardianOfTheFlame

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 03:04:05 PM »
I'm glad to have helped!  ;)
Thanks for the feedback and keep on working on this great mod! 8)
In the meanwhile, I'm downloading the last version ;D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 03:05:47 PM by GuardianOfTheFlame »

defactoman

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 08:11:39 PM »
On the subject of warlock mecanics, i'm a little confused on weapons.  I get the impression that warlocks can use any weapon and that the spells are based on the % of the weapon DPS.   However i'm a little confused on the effects of the weapon.   For example,  if i have a weapon that says "converys 25 damage over 5 seconds" on a mace i've seen that effect pop up when casting mana missile.   However, other effects like "24 health stolen on hit" don't seem to have any effect.  I've seen mention that certain procs will work like glacial strike.  So i guess my question is, what weapon stuff transfers over to the spell?

Anyways aside from that question, enjoying the warlock class.  It's been good fun.  Only level 12 at the moment. 

Scrotie79

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 01:49:15 PM »
On the subject of warlock mecanics, i'm a little confused on weapons.  I get the impression that warlocks can use any weapon and that the spells are based on the % of the weapon DPS.   However i'm a little confused on the effects of the weapon.   For example,  if i have a weapon that says "converys 25 damage over 5 seconds" on a mace i've seen that effect pop up when casting mana missile.   However, other effects like "24 health stolen on hit" don't seem to have any effect.  I've seen mention that certain procs will work like glacial strike.  So i guess my question is, what weapon stuff transfers over to the spell?

Anyways aside from that question, enjoying the warlock class.  It's been good fun.  Only level 12 at the moment. 

For skills like mana missles, netherbolts and skills of their ilk will proc effects with a % value or effects that say confers X. +X on hit will not proc. I am not a dev or programer so I can not explain exactly why the +X on hit will not proc, maybe someone that does understand the mechanics a little better than I do can help you out more by giving you a detailed explanation as to why it works this way.

Aye, I just rolled up a new 'leelock (Melee Warlock) and have been having a blast with it myself. The warlock is definitely one of my favorite classes for synergies at the moment.

Afwasmiddel

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2014, 05:51:45 PM »
Well I came to this post since I had the same doubts as the opener, but while I am here I might as well give some feedback. First of to stay on topic:
I am changing it all to consume, I am also checking the charge bar for its display of the affix, its suppose to show the % bonus increases.
Right now all spells say: Consume X HF/NE to cast. I got confused by that since it sounded like I required that amount of HF/NE in order to cast that specific spell. In my opinion it should only say: Consumes X HF/NE or Consumes X HF/NE on cast.
Something that annoyed me a little bit were the different ways HellFire and NetherEssence were written. Some skill descriptions use spaces like Hell Fire and Nether Essence, some don't use the second capital like Hellfire or Netheressence and sometimes it's just HF or NE. Just choose one of all these and use it for all descriptions regarding HellFire or NetherEssence

Anyway I am currently playing an elite warlock. I'm just lvl 30 and I am having a terrible hard time right now. I don't really like playing like a full caster like an embermage, so I decided to make a melee warlock. However I soon realized this wouldn't work the way I wanted to. I first tried to make an HellFire build generating HellFire with Burning Blade, but the cast animation is just really slow. It takes quite a while to fill up you HellFire compared to generating NetherEssence with Netherbolts. This wouldn't really be a problem if I were able to take some hits, but that's where my next problem lays.

In order to stay alive I am currently using a number of defensive spells: Brimstone 7, Soulseeker 7, Mana Shield 5, Mana Field 2 and Fractured Reality 1 when I really need to get away. However even these spells combined don't let me tank much at all. I am used to playing Engineer with Force Field and Healing Bot and I thought my skillset would somehow mimic that combo, but it doesn't even get close to the effectiveness of only those two vanilla spells. And to maintain all these spells I need quite some mana making the offensive part nearly impossible. Mana Shield tanks nearly nothing in the lower levels and I think it could use higher initiative damage absorption and lower gain per player level to compensate for it. Soulseeker was chosen for the health and mana on hit, other than that I think it's a rather weird spell that increases your max hp, but doesn't increase your current hp...

After a while I switched to a NetherEssence build since I didn't like the damage from Hell Fire so far. I decided to go with Nerther Slash, but it has the same problem as Burning Blade... slow animation. Now I ended up using Netherbolts which work really great. Even so I decided to continue with LAN games on normal/casual level since I want to level faster and get to that endgame gear (and lvl 100 ofc) as fast as possible. I think Hell Fire is only good endgame whereas Nether Void gives good options any time in the game. The main problem for Hell Fire for me right now is generating that HellFire. Conflagration could be an outcome but you'll need to get the tier 2 and 3 bonuses to get it working, same for Fire Shield. However wasting 15 points in Fire Shield just for the HellFire it generates is kinda stupid. I guess I'll just have to gain more levels and experiment with my builds. I keep switching from Hell Fire to Nether Void and back whenever I gain some levels.

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2014, 06:08:43 PM »
you will never make everyone happy, consumes is better then costs or requires.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Please explain Warlock mechanics to me
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2014, 06:11:23 PM »
I never found my lower level hellfire build to do bad damage, in fact in most cases my hellfire could do more damage then my netheressence. Its just that you end up taking more in turn yourself. Which makes it harder.

After next patch all the classes will have the 25% damage reduction during leveling, so it will balance out a lot better for the melee locks
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**