Author Topic: Experiances with a Combat Ranger  (Read 13407 times)

Evadebug

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2014, 12:05:06 PM »
The idea of disengaging when taking damage, and re-engaging to use procs is great for leveling, but doesnt translate well into endgame.  The damage I recieve in Darknessfalls far outweighs what my character can passively regen, as it would take tree of life 20 seconds to regen my 30k HP life pool.  And trying to disengage when I have taken damage is a difficult affair, as I often loose over 50% of my health just on the engage, with my only means of quickly recouping that health via life steal while meleeing.  This presents me with a conundrum, do I attempt to disengage and run around in range of my tree while ranged attacks continue to chip away at my health, or do I stay and fight and hope that my life on hit and mitigation exceeds thier damage dealing capacity. 

The fact that the combat ranger is unique in its complete lack of spammable ranged abilities means it must be in melee, but endgame melee is an extremely dangerous place.  I have been instantly killed engaging on trash mobs, because RNG said my 80% missle reflection was insufficient to deal with the spell that was cast as I was mid-closure. The only way I have made any progress in DF is by face tanking and spending a lot of time on a casual setting.  I have played the combat ranger on elite and made some progress, but with a lot of deaths (from trash and bosses alike).  If elite is what the ranger is to be balanced for, and I regularly die to the trash with fully survival focused enchants/gemmed tier 1 gear, then perhaps endgame combat rangers need a different approach.

In my time playing a combat ranger, one thing has become apparent.  We need a form of crowd control.  Breathing room is generally when they are already ontop of you, and bramble wall only immobilizes, leaving them free to bombard you with spells.  If bramble wall had the ability to lock them inplace similar to what "freeze" does, it would allow us to keep some enemies at range while we selectively pick off the ones closest to us. If the enemy is facing you, they can still attack/cast spells, meaning positioning and flanking would be paramount in survival. Currently, I know the only way I can progress through a level is to dive into enemies, and pray my lifesteal is sufficient to let me survive the encounter.  But if I didnt have to go 1v5 each time, I think darkness falls would be less of "You have died" over and over again.

If the ranger healing is meant to be passive regen, can tree of life be changed from a flat value, to a % based over time.  As I said earlier, 20 seconds is too long to try and avoid enemies in Darkness falls, so I have bypassed the skill entirely.  And without a passive way to build up nature counters, bramble wall with its 4 second cooldown is a very clunky mechanic to gain them.  I dont mind spamming it to get them started, but I would love a method to maintain what I have.  Perhaps give the trees an ability to give a nature counter at the rate they would normally degrade if you are in proximity?  That would further encourage thier use, as only giving 1 or 2 nature counters upon cast, and then having a long cooldown for the skill usually means the counters are not used.

I continue to enjoy the ranger class, you have done an amazing job in it mechanics and gameplay salan.  It just suffers from the same issue all melees do endgame, how to balance them against the ranged classes who can engage enemies individually from range, and not get hit.  The best answer I can come up with is to allow the ranger to engage enemies individually via some form of cc, so that thier defensive abilities are not being overwhelmed on each engage.

And since I have finished my gemming, here are my offensive stats for Miothan, these are taken while in DarknessFalls with a full charge bar:

73% attack speed
22% cast speed
100% crit chance
500% crit damage
4% fumble chance
377% dual wield bonus
61% execute chance
62% physical damage bonus

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2014, 07:12:37 PM »
we'll get it there.

I think any huge healing bonus the class receives needs to be weighed heavily into the melee side of the class, and not the ranged.  So far my testing with ranged version isn't as 'brutal' but not as easy as some other classes (which is ok).

one of the options would be to boost up the rewards in the end points of renewal to a much much higher amount, or integrate wounds into another healing option.
I think the type of heals the ranger has could work, just that the numbers are just too low at the end to make the difference it needs.
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Evadebug

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2014, 06:04:48 PM »
And playing on casual difficulty, Rak' var and Netherlord are beyond my ability to kill (adds never stop spawning, so I can never get ahead of them to dps the boss). 

To update my status, Rak'var and Netherlord have both been killed on casual, closure was the game changer for netherlord.  Its a hard encounter, but Ive learned to leech off the spell casters in between closures to AoE the tentacles, which prevents me from being swarmed.  Rak'var challenge chest is still beyond my reach, as Im either frozen in place (cant disengage or leech), being knocked back by the wing attack (cant leach).  The worst is definitely being frozen in place, the enemy standing right beside me as I mash my blade weaving trying to disengage.  Without access to immobilization resistance or an effect to break free, any effect like this in the future will continue to wreck combat rangers. 

I would love to hear how other classes manage to do the challenge chest for Rak'var and Warlock, because as a fully geared tier 1 ranger, I simply cant.

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2014, 06:39:18 PM »
did you try with maybe wearing two HOLY angelic rings?

just curious
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Evadebug

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2014, 08:08:47 PM »
Holy angelic rings dont have immobilization resistance.  Although I guess I could equip draketalon shoulders, as they have 100% immobilization resist, but I hate having to wear ilvl 105 uniques to deal with endgame bosses who are dropping ilvl 120 mythicals. 

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2014, 09:19:32 PM »
mm immobilization.. lemme look
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Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2014, 09:23:54 PM »
Holy angelic rings dont have immobilization resistance.  Although I guess I could equip draketalon shoulders, as they have 100% immobilization resist, but I hate having to wear ilvl 105 uniques to deal with endgame bosses who are dropping ilvl 120 mythicals.

All the brimstone and eclipse boots have immobilization resistance (20-50%)

and the Phoenix Wrathful rings have it as well.
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Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2014, 10:06:56 PM »
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2014, 12:22:56 AM »
A lot of survival buffs to the current skills.  Let me know how much this helps, I am sure there will be more tweaks.


patch going up on SEPTEMBER 21st...
RANGER
Thousand Cuts
10 skill points: Proc now allows health stealing effects.

Sweeping Strike
10 skill points: Proc now allows health stealing effects.

Gift of Renewal
10 skill points to 15 skill points.
amount of health returned by PETS drastically increased per skill point.
amount of health returned by player drastically increased per skill point.

Bladeweaving
Added a IMMOBILIZATION resistance while the skill is active.
15 skill point Health regen more then doubled in amount.

Natures Blessing
Health amount increased per skill point investment (by 40%)

Tree of Healing
15 skill points:  both health regenerations increased by at least 30%

Natures Rage
Now correctly imparts half the rage buff, instead of the full rage buff.

Closure
10 skill points: Allows health stealing when doing damage.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2014, 09:13:12 PM »
so anyone try the last changes?
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Evadebug

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2014, 09:40:09 AM »
So I spent a good deal of time experimenting with the changes, and I really like the direction you have taken with the ranger.  I was able to obtain the challenge chest from Rak'var and Warlock, which means I may finally complete my reactive set if the RNG favors me.  Dragon Phase is still a hellish experiance for melee, but not all encounters will be balanced for all classes equally.  One thing I noted was the immobilization resistance for blade weaving doesnt seem to be applying immediately.  I tested on Executioner, I let myself get immobilized by his spell, I spammed blade weaving, but stayed immobilized.  So I thought perhaps it is only preventing immobilization if you cast it just prior to being immobilized.  So when I saw his spell, I would blade weaving INTO the immobilization.  And get frozen to the ground.  Im not sure how you want the spell to function, but it wasnt applying intime for me to disengage.  That said, the changes are amazing, have really improved gameplay, and forced me to rethink gearing.  Ill continue to update as I venture into elite.

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2014, 11:13:40 AM »
darn it, I wasn't sure if it was going to break immobilization already in effect or not, basic logic says it wouldn't, but had to try.

I will think of something, Maybe I could do a search for affixes and abilities that cause immobilization, change ALL of them to have the same effect name, and then have bladeweaving remove that specific effect on cast.. that's a lot of work for a single classes spell, but it would be an interesting upgrade across the board for other potential ideas.

I want to make it so bladeweaving has the ability to not be effected by immobilization.   Its an escape skill for a melee centric class that truly needs it for the content.

I will figure something out.


Glad that the health changes are working better, I need to keep monitoring it so that I can keep making tweaks if need be.  I didn't want to mimic the berserker and engineer survival abilities, and the rangers are unique.  Just had to UP the chances of them working to be 'on par' yet diverse.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2014, 11:14:19 AM »
And MOST of the changes don't effect the ranged build either, which was important.
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**

Evadebug

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2014, 12:58:03 PM »
Although this would be a nerf for the dps of the class, would you be opposed to changing the cooldown timer on closure to 3 seconds?  In its current incarnation at 2 seconds, I can spam it to do large AoE damage, something I dont think fits in your overall design of the Combat ranger.  It is the perfect initiation tool for the ranger in its ability to pull enemies closer, proc skills and leech.  But when Im doing it every 2 seconds Im not using it as initiation and repositioning, but as AoE dps.  It still is essential as an AoE dps tool for encounters like netherlord tentacles, but an extra second per cast will reduce the combat rangers ranged dps, while still maintaining its function.

Salan

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Re: Experiances with a Combat Ranger
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2014, 07:01:08 PM »
ya I was watching this one, you do have breathing room for recasting aoe ...
People motivate themselves, and are inspired by others.
--- I love making FUN encounters, the ones that make you scream with terror, and remember them forever! ---
**more awesome then an awesome possum**