Author Topic: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)  (Read 8002 times)

akira

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Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« on: May 23, 2015, 05:23:05 AM »
I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed by synergies...played a bit of TL2 up to act 2 but quickly got bored...looks like a lot more variety with the mod and since my internet is down i figured i'd try some of the offline-playable ARPGs like this and grim dawn (which i got bored of already lol)


anyway, ive found that leveling is PAINFUL...everything is single attack oriented, usually have to whack stuff like 3x with my staff just for a single trash mob...i dont know what classes recently got nerfed/buffed or what youtube guides are still up to date... anyone got a recommendation for a newb that doesnt require gear and doesnt have to wait till level 16 or something to start taking damage skills (like the Wolfpack berzerker)

Miothan

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2015, 05:30:14 PM »
The easiest classes to start with is Berserker and Engineer, they both have their big survivability abilities early in the game(req lvl 2-4), but like most classes, they have their good attacks available later on (lvl 16).

The only exception i know of, is the Warlock, starts with Netherbolts which is hes best lvling ability, but it costs a ton of mana which leads to potion madness for him before you get stable mana regen (which probably wont happen until you hit level 100 and get some gear :D)
What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

potterman28wxcv

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 08:04:16 AM »
The only exception i know of, is the Warlock, starts with Netherbolts which is hes best lvling ability, but it costs a ton of mana which leads to potion madness for him before you get stable mana regen (which probably wont happen until you hit level 100 and get some gear :D)
Mana potions are absolutely necessary while leveling anyway. I always keep a stack of at least 50 mana potions with me

Dunno

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 10:22:14 PM »
I recently started TL2 with Syn, didn't play Vanilla, and I'm absolutely overwhelmed, too. Unfortunately English is not my native language so it's hard for me to get a good start with a class that is viable for endgame raiding.

I tested nearly every class up to level ~30+ but I'm not convinced which class I should play and, thats my biggest problem, HOW it should be played (while leveling and for raiding). I'd really like to see some good guides, not only for longtime everlasting testing players. I watched Greatnames vids on ytube and I love them but they're all adressed to people who already know how to play their class in endgame. The "build" forums aren't really the kind of help I'm looking forward to especially since the posts are mostly older then a year or two.

My research ended up with the following classes (and guides):
 
Warlock / One Proc build (consoled one up to lvl 100 for testing but it's not my kind of playstyle - I don't like pure casters)
http://forums.synergiesmod.com/index.php?topic=3922.0

Berzerker / Wolfpack (dual wield? seems to be very interesting, but very mana intensive. Is there a more weapon-based alternative? I really like the Barbarian, smashing, gory but totally overpowered way...)
http://forums.synergiesmod.com/index.php?topic=5607.0

Engineer / Emberquake with 1H+Shield "Sword & Board" (no guides found, only complains about viability of the cannon-build and no current issues.)

Necromancer / (Bone Needles - Bone Spikes (?) - Infect. Touch (?) - Summons (?)... (found a guide from Miothan which is outdated as his info says and a one year old guide from Dracovitch)
http://forums.synergiesmod.com/index.php?topic=4759.0

Ranger / Thorns - Combat? (I don't know if any of both specs are still viable because the ranger seems to be still tagged with "work in progress" in this forum)
There is a combat guide which is stated at people who are capable of endgame gear in their stashes so... nothing for starters like me...
downsay proposed a "Ranged Ranger viable" guide in Feb but it seems noone is interested in or maybe he/she doesn't play anymore.

In short...
are there any (raid viable) class-guides based on the latest patches for newbies like me on their way from level 1 - endgame raiding?

Miothan

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 04:03:02 PM »
In short...
are there any (raid viable) class-guides based on the latest patches for newbies like me on their way from level 1 - endgame raiding?

Berserker is probably yourr best bet if you want to have a barbarian-like experience, just use Ravage instead of Wolfpack, works for Raids as well, and is easy to level-up due to Blood Hunger and Shadow Burst healing.

Berserker is also the only class that can use auto-hits really well in Darkness Falls but it does require you to have enough gear to support it in Darkness Falls ^^

I dont think there is a really in-depth berserker guide, there are guides but they just tell you what build to use.

Other Option is to use an Engineer, Emberquake is quite fun and works well while lvling as well as when doing raids.
What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

Dunno

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 07:56:18 PM »
I'm currently switching between
 - Zerker (tested Wolpack and Ravage but don't know what's the right choice regarding dmg and surv. but it could be a very interesting class for me if there wouldnt be the engi... ^^),
 
- Engi (found a recent post of yours with this 1H+Shield build http://tidbi.ru/eng/engineer.php?lvl=100&fm=33&skill=000F00F0E0F000000FF1FF0000F0F0&stat=apafafdUaaaaaaac but am confused about the use or the "not use" of skills like "Coup de Grace", "Shock Grenade", "Tremor" and "Shield Bash")
I'm really enjoying the "Jump-Smash-Burn-Style" of the Engi. Would be very glad if you could share some more detailed infos regarding leveling and endgame build/stats.

 - Necro (shown in this guide: http://forums.synergiesmod.com/index.php?topic=4759.0 and love it so far but im still worried about raid viability)

 - Ranger (tested a melee Ranger but don't get the clou how to use Thousand Cuts and or OR Sweeping strikes, died a lot... tested a ranged Ranger with Electrocute/Thorns and it rocks but seems to be a RMB-down-and-loot-class, still the concerns of endgame viability...)

In spite of stats you said several times that it would be good to have at least 200 Vita and 100-120 Dex. So it's always a split between 100 Str and 100 Focus (if mana neeeded)?

Miothan

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2015, 08:48:28 AM »
I'm currently switching between
 - Zerker (tested Wolpack and Ravage but don't know what's the right choice regarding dmg and surv. but it could be a very interesting class for me if there wouldnt be the engi... ^^),
 
- Engi (found a recent post of yours with this 1H+Shield build http://tidbi.ru/eng/engineer.php?lvl=100&fm=33&skill=000F00F0E0F000000FF1FF0000F0F0&stat=apafafdUaaaaaaac but am confused about the use or the "not use" of skills like "Coup de Grace", "Shock Grenade", "Tremor" and "Shield Bash")
I'm really enjoying the "Jump-Smash-Burn-Style" of the Engi. Would be very glad if you could share some more detailed infos regarding leveling and endgame build/stats.

 - Necro (shown in this guide: http://forums.synergiesmod.com/index.php?topic=4759.0 and love it so far but im still worried about raid viability)

 - Ranger (tested a melee Ranger but don't get the clou how to use Thousand Cuts and or OR Sweeping strikes, died a lot... tested a ranged Ranger with Electrocute/Thorns and it rocks but seems to be a RMB-down-and-loot-class, still the concerns of endgame viability...)

In spite of stats you said several times that it would be good to have at least 200 Vita and 100-120 Dex. So it's always a split between 100 Str and 100 Focus (if mana neeeded)?

For Engineer:

Effects such as stun and slow are usually useless on bosses which is why the skills "Tremor" and Seismic Slam" are largely useless for boss encounters simply because Emberquake does MORE damage and is AoE just like those moves. Coup De grace is also only working if you stun a target beforehand and it can only proc once per second, which makes it a REALLY bad skill that ultimately will never deal any daamge to a Boss, Shock grenade suffers from the same problems: Does less damage than Emberquake and cant stun bosses. If you need to stun mobs to finish an encounter, then you will never make it in Darkness Falls, it is good while leveling, but once you reach the end-game activities which are Derinkuyu, Or'ak Pass/Basin and Darkness Falls you cant rely on stuns anymore since it will only increase the time it takes to kill things and for bosses its just useless anyway since bosses can not be stunned.

If you use the build i linked there, you just mainly use shield bash until you have max charge: Use ForceField for the 67k absorb shield and then whack away at the boss, and also use Onslahguth once in a while to keep up those debuffs on the boss and immobalize copter (both debuffs works on bosses)

You can use shield bash again to build up max charge in preparation for the next time you need to use your shield, it is a rather easy class for Derinkuyu, but for Darkness Falls it  only becomes "easy" once you have enough gear to overcome the debuffs and still have enough HP (its the same for all classes that starts their DF progression, will take some items before any class can do well enough in DF). I would recommend Residual Aftermath for the Engineer once you set your eyes on Darkness Falls progress, works really well for the Engineer and the parry procs allows you to get up to 160k Absorb shield from Aegis of Fate  :) other sets are viable as well but does not grant you as much in terms of survivability and damage.

For Berserker:

Berserker is very easy to level-up and survive with thanks to Blood Hunger and Shadow Burst, you can (and probably want) to use: Cold steel Mastery, Shred Armor and Red Wolf always as they work with almost all of the Berserkers Abilities, also i would recommend you use Howl, it is one of the very few abilities in the game that does -Damage reduction to enemies and it also debuffs them which is great.

Berserker is a very easy class in Darkness Falls once you get 2 Residual Aftermath Bone Axes due to the regen autoattacks offer (1-4%x2) so as long as you dual-wield 2 of those axes it will be considerably easy to survive since you can go from 1 hp to 30k in a few seconds, and if you dont think you will survive long enough, you can just use Shadow Burst since that also counts as a melee hit so you get the added health regen from the axes 4% (can roll 1-4% so might have to get many drops before you get one that is good enough to keep :P).

For Necromancer:

Necromancer does not have as good survivability as the Warlock, Berserker and Engineer, but good enough to be decent in Darkness Falls.

Necromancer's best damage move is Bone Needles, and it is what i personally built my necro around, to increase the damage of it since its the only viable move the necromancer has for Darkness Falls (at least in my opinion).

Necro summons:  tried using Summons with full summon set and +1700% pet and minion damage but it just did not work at all, the pet and Minion AI is retarded in this game and they also attack to slow (Cant be remedied with +attack speed to minions since its not enough of an increase).

Necromancers biggest weakness is taking a big hit, he does not have enough regen to keep up with more than 1 big hit at a time, which is why it is easier to do DF with Warlock, Berserker and Engineer (plus they have better damage abilities and passives), since Necromancer pretty much plays as a ranged magic user it has the same BiS items as the Warlock but will struggle more during the gearing up process in DF.

While leveling a necromancer the summons are GREAT, its also very fun to have your own army to kick-ass with haha :D i remember when i lvld my necro, oh boy that was fun =)

For ALL Classes:

Yes i recommend to have 200 VIT and 100-130 DEX on all classes, simply because dex is a VERY poor stat after 130 dex (due to diminishing returns) and you generally dont get much dex from gear, the exception being the Wrathful Phoenix and Residual Aftermath Set, but even if you use that, you only get ~80-90dex from the set and you still benefit A LOT from using 100-130 points in dex because you get so much from dex, so you free up more special enchants and mythical skulls to be used on other stuff.

Ofcourse you can go with 0 in dex and vit, it only means you will have to wear more +vit/+dex skulls once you progress in Darkness Falls, but it will be easier for your progress if you already have more HP and more dodge/crit chance when you start your DF progress. Ultimately it does not matter much where you put those stats as there is +vit/dex +foc/str/ +Vit/foc +vit +str +foc mythical skulls so you can "fill in the holes" with those skulls.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 09:13:44 AM by Miothan »
What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

Dunno

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2015, 11:19:34 AM »
Wow! A lot of new infos! I really appreciate your help!

For Engi:
Is it possible to neglate the 1H+Shield variant and go for a 2handed specc? There are a lot of very big hammers and swords out there but noone seems to be using them doesn't matter which class. Is it essential of using a shield in endgame or while leveling for an engi? And what about "Sword and Board"? The extra dmg seems to be nice to have in terms of using "just" a 1H Weapon.

That's the way I'm currently testing in comparison to the posted build below with shield bash:
http://tidbi.ru/eng/engineer.php?lvl=30&fm=5&skill=000500271050000000410500001070&stat=bhazbhaQabaaabac

Maybe with some more points to spend I'd use Dynamo Field for generating charges faster and later on Bulwark. Gameplay'd look like: (Bot & Copter) - Onslaught - Dynamo Field - Forcefield - Emberquake and autohits switching regarding mana pool. Do you think its viable or in case of survaibility/dmg output to low/lower then Shield Bash - autohit switiching?

Miothan

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2015, 01:24:10 PM »
Wow! A lot of new infos! I really appreciate your help!

For Engi:
Is it possible to neglate the 1H+Shield variant and go for a 2handed specc? There are a lot of very big hammers and swords out there but noone seems to be using them doesn't matter which class. Is it essential of using a shield in endgame or while leveling for an engi? And what about "Sword and Board"? The extra dmg seems to be nice to have in terms of using "just" a 1H Weapon.

That's the way I'm currently testing in comparison to the posted build below with shield bash:
http://tidbi.ru/eng/engineer.php?lvl=30&fm=5&skill=000500271050000000410500001070&stat=bhazbhaQabaaabac

Maybe with some more points to spend I'd use Dynamo Field for generating charges faster and later on Bulwark. Gameplay'd look like: (Bot & Copter) - Onslaught - Dynamo Field - Forcefield - Emberquake and autohits switching regarding mana pool. Do you think its viable or in case of survaibility/dmg output to low/lower then Shield Bash - autohit switiching?

Anything works while lvling really, but for Darkness Falls (current hardest content) 2H isnt working all that well because you lose the ability to block which adds a TON of survivability(You can block much more things in the game than you can dodge, which is why block is also valued higher than dodge), and the difference between 1h and 2h is not big enough to warrant the use of 2-handers over 1-handers. the passive: Sword & Board is certainly not worth the points, its a rather bad ability (for end-game activities) since the gain is REALLY low.

There is no class which is better with a 2handed weapon, its a shame really, since it is rather easy to make a class that uses 2handers, you would just need to create skills that benefits from 2handers such as:

4,5% of all damage heals the player (only works while wearing a 2handed weapon)
+30% dodge chance passive (at 15 points, would need a survival boost to make up for the loss of dual-wield or shield)
100% of Weapon DPS adds to All armor (would work with any weapon, but since 2handers has more damage, it would give a player more all armor)

Tho such skills would be better when used with a 1hander + shield :P so right now a 2hander just doesnt have enough damage increase to beat or even make it viable compared to 1h+shield or dual-wielding (and never has, perhaps with future releases), you can certainly use 2handers but your survivability will take a big hit.

The problem stems from the survivability needs in Darkness Falls, where you will need to be able to cope with taking big hits and have to be able to regenerate missing health quickly or you die.


 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 01:31:06 PM by Miothan »
What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

Dunno

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2015, 01:54:05 PM »
So you would recommend 1h + Shield for every class (Engi, Necro, WL) even for Berserker? The way up to 2 Residual Aftermath Bone Axes  is veeeeery long but I'm feeling fine atm with 2 Axes/Maces/Swords while leveling because I need the autohits and crits. Or are claws the better way to go (faster attacks, no splash damage but maybe "Red Wolf" is enough for AoE)?

Regarding Wolfpack vs. Ravage I'm a little bit confused. It seems Wolfpack would be the better choice if I look around the forum?
Quote
Berserker is probably yourr best bet if you want to have a barbarian-like experience, just use Ravage instead of Wolfpack, works for Raids as well
Quote
Wolf Pack is more powerful than ravage since each wolf can crit.

Sorry for thousand questions and mistakes. ^^


 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 02:02:55 PM by Dunno »

Miothan

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2015, 04:32:14 PM »
So you would recommend 1h + Shield for every class (Engi, Necro, WL) even for Berserker? The way up to 2 Residual Aftermath Bone Axes  is veeeeery long but I'm feeling fine atm with 2 Axes/Maces/Swords while leveling because I need the autohits and crits. Or are claws the better way to go (faster attacks, no splash damage but maybe "Red Wolf" is enough for AoE)?

Regarding Wolfpack vs. Ravage I'm a little bit confused. It seems Wolfpack would be the better choice if I look around the forum?
Quote
Berserker is probably yourr best bet if you want to have a barbarian-like experience, just use Ravage instead of Wolfpack, works for Raids as well
Quote
Wolf Pack is more powerful than ravage since each wolf can crit.

Sorry for thousand questions and mistakes. ^^

No, i recommend 1h+shield OR dual-wielding depending on what class it is you play, i never recommend 2handers for any class since they are not good enough to use in my opinion.

Wolfpack is indeed the best out of the two, but for a "barbarian-like" experience ravage is better as its more of an "in-your-face" play -style while Wolfpack is a ranged ability which doesnt really feel very barbarian-like (at least not to me, tho i guess it depends on WHICH barabarian you compare it to as i compare it to D2 barbarian not D3).

For leveling it doesnt matter which weapon you use, just find a good one and then replace it with a better one a few levels later ^^ at level 100 its a close call, did research about what weapon for the berserker at lvl 100 (from vendor bought ones) and it seemed to me that 2x Hammer of Retribution is the best, did not do any in-depth research on T0 set weapons tho so T0 weapons might be better, Assassin set looks good, i used Adamant set on my Berserker when i was progressing in Darkness Falls, but that was a long time ago and DF was not that hard back then.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the Ranged Ranger might be the only class that can be decent with a 2hander, havent done enough testing to be sure and i dont like the class so i wont be spending more time with it.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 05:20:34 PM by Miothan »
What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

Dunno

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2015, 07:26:46 PM »
Which classes (choice between the 4 viable mentioned ones) do you think will profit from dual-wielding except of Berserker?

I'm still trying to manage my Engi with Shield Bash but I'm unsure about it's use or if the autoattacks are better to stack my Charges. Maybe it will be more come in handy if I have spent more then 5 Points in it... Any hints?
 
Yeah, you're right, Ravage is the more stylish one regarding my favours but the wolfpack has the big advantage of searching for enemies which is quite useful at some times. ^^


Miothan

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 05:10:54 AM »
Which classes (choice between the 4 viable mentioned ones) do you think will profit from dual-wielding except of Berserker?

I'm still trying to manage my Engi with Shield Bash but I'm unsure about it's use or if the autoattacks are better to stack my Charges. Maybe it will be more come in handy if I have spent more then 5 Points in it... Any hints?
 
Yeah, you're right, Ravage is the more stylish one regarding my favours but the wolfpack has the big advantage of searching for enemies which is quite useful at some times. ^^

Engineer and Berserker are the ones i myself dual-wield on, both use Residual Aftermath Set so they use 2x Residual Aftermath Bone Axes which gives them great survivability and does great damage on autoattacks as well as their main attacks.

My Engineer gets full charge from about 1 seconds auto attacking which is why you can drop shield bash once you get 2 bone axes in DF, and even before that you might be able to get charges faster with autoattacks depending on your autoattack damage, but thats all for level 100 stuff, while leveling im pretty sure you will gain charge faster with shield bash.

Dual-wield for Warlock and Necromancer doesnt really add much since they do not autoattack and their survivability comes from their active abilities and not from passives like the Berserker and Engineer (except for the engineers 60k absorb shield ofc :P) and they also lose a LOT of survivability if they would for example dual-wield Smouldering Brimstone Mace, sure you gain a lot of great stats such as +another 37% cast speed etc, but that only translates to about ~1.5-2 seconds faster kill times on a boss since you already have a lot of cast speed, so getting more is not a BIG deal (this calculation is done with already BiS gear, so having 1 or 2 weapons is not a huge difference)

Shield Bash: Yes, more points increases the damage you do with Shield bash, and it also increases how much charge you gain from using the ability itself at 5 points you generate 0.28 charge per use of the ability, at 15 points you generate 0.48 charge per use of the ability, it should take you about 5 seconds to gain full charge with Shield bash once you have 15 points in it, if it takes you less time or almost the same time to gain full charge with autoattackst then just use autoattacks and spend those 15 points elsewhere.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 05:14:06 AM by Miothan »
What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

Dunno

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2015, 05:03:28 AM »
Back with another stupid question...

We just finished the storyline last night with the Engi (and my mate with his mage) and now we're wondering what to do. We're stucking around level 50 and there seem to be different possibilities of getting to 100. NG+ won't work what I've read so far so I guess the next step in line would be leveling via mapworks, clockworks (???) or RoD? What's the most efficient way of leveling now without consoling the char?

potterman28wxcv

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Re: Good beginner class (no gear, levels easily etc)
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2015, 05:40:13 AM »
Back with another stupid question...

We just finished the storyline last night with the Engi (and my mate with his mage) and now we're wondering what to do. We're stucking around level 50 and there seem to be different possibilities of getting to 100. NG+ won't work what I've read so far so I guess the next step in line would be leveling via mapworks, clockworks (???) or RoD? What's the most efficient way of leveling now without consoling the char?
Either clockworks or RoD ; maps in mapworks are too slow to level quickly