Author Topic: Embermage is Impossible  (Read 695 times)

Olorin

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Embermage is Impossible
« on: July 08, 2016, 02:17:32 AM »
I dont know what the hell was up with people showcasing the embermage taking on Abe, on NORMAL difficulty and that being interpreted as 'embermage is fine' because it can do it on normal difficulty.
The only other showcase on elite difficulty, is an already T1 geared embermage, which isn't evidence that embermage is fine, just because it can finish the bosses with T1 gear. The missile reflect on even mini bosses is ridiculous, even when using death's bounty, which is stupid because one of the only viable T1 dmg ability is PB.

Or you know, I just need to get gud, or you're supposed to die like 10 times on 1 boss...? And I don't get how in the video showcase @2:36 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtW1hobIGJg, the magic dmg seen is as 6885-8621, what is that even based off? My focus is exactly the same and my magic dmg is 2310-4694.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:40:55 PM by Olorin »

Miothan

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 10:17:52 AM »
Well, the guy in the vid clearly has either another mod that gives him more skill-points, or hes bug abusing it to get more skill-points, he has every single passive skill at 15 points + a lot of active skills, that's not possible.

And Abe is rather hard for T0 geared characters due to hes very high missile reflection, all classes struggles vs. him when they just start out their T1 progress, Abe gets buffed by hes minions, so you want to kill hes minions before they buff him too much (1 minion = 1 buff, if you kill that minion that buff goes away, i forgot what the buff numbers are, but it's +dmg and something else).

I myself haven't tried out the Embermage after the changes so i don't know if it's good enough after it's update, could very well be that it's still a pile of dogshit :D but others have commented saying it's now OP.

Keep in mind the T1 debuff, you should always be at 75% Damage Reduction if you want to have a good chance at surviving vs. T1 bosses.

The trash mobs in DF drops T1.5 items (they are called T1.5 but they are actually weaker than T1 items) and i would recommend you get T1.5 legs they are quite powerful compared to T0 leggings even if you have T0 2x soulbound, and while you farm for that you might come across a few Generals, they drop T1 items and soulstones + T1 skulls, so you should kill them when you get the chance as well, 1 General always spawn and 1 more has a chance to spawn, so you could do general runs by just exploring the map and reroll once you kill a general.

What was once dead, can be made into servants of death and destruction. Feast on the innocent, slaughter the weak and punish those who would stand in your way!

Olorin

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 07:57:45 PM »
Yeah he is rather challenging, but I was just constantly dying 7 times in a row. As soon as I came back in, I got swarmed by like 7 adds.
As I mentioned in your build thread though, playing as a warlock with T0 gear made Abe ridiculously easy, but felt slightly slower (or it just wasn't as eventful, dying constantly as an embermage).

Would definitely recommend trying out embermage to see if it's any better, as I've only played it after the changes and still feel it's subpar. I'd be interested to hear the arguments that embermage is now OP though. Literally what an embermage needs is a passive healing skill that depends on distance and rewards the people that teleport out of range of boss and ads to get a heal, and scales slightly with focus/vit stat. I'd be happy if the embermage was a difficult class to play but when done right, had godly dmg.
I've been playing with 75% dmg reduction, and about 62% block chance, but can't get my dodge chance high enough and it just sits at 18% (as I just don't have enough slots to fit health and dex skulls). I recently dropped a couple of health skulls for more Skulls of Ojoz (which for some reason only give 62 focus and so are exactly the same as Wfuntir) but notice I've been dying a bit more, only having 16k health.
Big problem is that the main dmg skill PB is good because you can keep distance a bit more, but against adds it's terrible and you'll get swarmed. Can't use frostwave against bosses, as you'd need to get right up to their face to hit them with all 5 waves. I suppose you could get both abilities, but then you'd probably end up sacrificing hailstorm which makes frostwave way more effective.
I've seen some people using lightning storm, but you'd still have to get up right to the mob to use it on them, and how much does the ability protect you while casting..?
The adds in Abe's hideout were just running too fast, and could catch me too quickly, despite me almost having to TP away immediately so I could barely do any dmg.

A few of the generals seem to have missile reflect or something, or reflect dmg as sometimes when I use ice prison and the pillars shatter, I just insta die.

I'm pissed off at that guy that gave feedback saying 'yeah embermage is fine now' and Salan believing him, when the dude was using over 300 skill points. I barely saw any of the bosses reflect his PBs in the video, which happens constantly in my game, just seems bs. The respec potion is basically bugged and gives you extra points, and I can't remember how many you SHOULD have max, as when I set it back to 150, there were extra fame ranks of Supreme Being that gave me more points. I realised I could have been playing with 30 extra skill points and still struggling, so now things are just going to be worse.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 12:04:19 AM by Olorin »

Olorin

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 08:27:28 PM »
With Abe, the pillars of ice prison shattering keep coinciding with me getting killed for some reason... they're not exactly projectiles, so why am I getting all this dmg reflected back on me?

Okay yeah... what the hell is with this:

12:22:43: Abe interrupts Ice Pillar
12:22:43: Olorin casts shatter on Ice Pillar
12:22:43: Awarded 0 experience.
12:22:43: Abe deals (16084-17873)->17447 post soak:16551

And this

12:26:43: Abe deals (46837-52045)->48409 post soak:11316
12:26:43:   +Fire dmg  (10784-11980)->11670 post abs:2778
12:26:43: Abe interrupts Olorin
12:26:43: Abe Blocked!
12:26:43: Olorin casts shatter on Ice Pillar
12:26:43: Abe deals (46837-52045)->50263 post soak:11583
12:26:43:   +Fire dmg  (10784-11980)->11871 post abs:2850
12:26:43: Abe interrupts Olorin
12:26:43: Abe Blocked!
12:26:43: Olorin casts shatter on Ice Pillar
12:26:43: Abe CRITS!  (46837-52045)->78067 post soak:18492
12:26:43:   +Fire dmg  (10784-11980)->17970 post abs:4281
12:26:43: Abe interrupts Olorin
12:26:43: Abe Blocked!
12:26:43: Olorin casts shatter on Ice Pillar
12:26:43: Abe deals (46837-52045)->50005 post soak:11347
12:26:43:   +Fire dmg  (10784-11980)->11441 post abs:2642
12:26:43: Abe interrupts Olorin
12:26:43: Olorin casts shatter on Ice Pillar
12:26:43: Abe deals (46837-52045)->48667 post soak:11433
12:26:43:   +Fire dmg  (10784-11980)->10971 post abs:2631

And how is this meant to be survivable?

12:31:12: Abe CRITS!  (37468-49955)->74932 post soak:55410
12:31:12:   +Fire dmg  (8005-10672)->16008 post abs:12469
12:31:12:   +Ice dmg  (12009-16009)->24013 post abs:18566
12:31:12:   +Electric dmg  (8005-10672)->16008 post abs:12419


He just keeps reflecting ice prison dmg on me, as well as prismatic bolt. Ice prison is meant to be the most useful against bosses, but it ends up getting me killed.
I literally die less, trying to face tank him and using frost wave and sometimes quickly tping away from swings, than trying to stay far away and using ice prison + prismatic bolt.

Does Abe literally have some attack from a distance, that just does a massive load of dmg or something, and you're better off trying to tank his sword swings 0.o
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 09:42:55 PM by Olorin »

potterman28wxcv

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2016, 07:54:20 AM »
The reflection affix is just broken, and should not be part of the game. That's imo the biggest design flaw of Synergies sadly

Olorin

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 08:10:00 PM »
I'll look into making a mod to buff the embermage a little bit... and see if there's a way to tone down the reflect. Only way I can think of without editing synergies itself is to add in a condition where if damage is reflected, it's absorbed, or something like that.

Edit: Btw, what do you think of the Embermage Passive Overhaul for Synergies?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 02:03:32 AM by Olorin »

potterman28wxcv

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 12:10:00 PM »
add in a condition where if damage is reflected, it's absorbed, or something like that.
I don't think that's possible. The game considers damage sources regardless of where they came from.
The only distinction the game is making is physical vs magical.

Unless there is some hidden thing in GUTS that I have no knowledge about

Edit: Btw, what do you think of the Embermage Passive Overhaul for Synergies?
I did not test it - but it's hard to fix the endgame without breaking the leveling (making the Embermage too OP).

For me, the problem is really in the reflect ability - if you want to keep it, you have to work around it which is painful and might introduce further inbalances

Olorin

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Re: Embermage is Impossible
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 05:38:02 PM »
Well that kinda sucks... :/ I had to just stop using ice prison, because the reflect was ridiculous.

Embermage felt OP during levelling and during tier 0. I'm worried mainly about balancing for tier 1, but I can simply make the more powerful abilities unlock slower, and get progressively more powerful beyond level 85. Embermage Passive Overhaul makes fire-ice-lightning brand all one brand, there's a passive that gives elemental damage +48% at rank 15. Critical strikes passive that gives +10% crit chance and 20% bonus to crit dmg at level 10, and a spell shield that gives damage absorption that can stack a bit, can add up to a few thousand points. There's also the armour melt passive, that replaces staff mastery, and gives -40% to each elemental armour for 8 seconds at rank 15, when you hit an enemy affected by a status ailment.

Something that always annoyed me was the elemental boon passive, which I think needs a little bit more duration + damage reduction.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:32:42 PM by Olorin »